HC Deb 01 March 1962 vol 654 cc1647-50

9.0 p.m.

Miss Herbison

I beg to move, in page 6, line 17, to leave out paragraph (b).

This paragraph reads: the fees and expenses payable in respect of persons attending schools at which fees are payable; Earlier in the Clause we find that the Secretary of State is taking powers for the purpose of defraying in whole or in part these fees. This is not new in legislation. This provision has been with us for a considerable time.

We have tabled the Amendment to have some questions answered? What is the extent of this provision? What is the annual cost to the Scottish Education Department? How many young people are involved? From what type of home do these children come? It is important that we should have this information. When a decision is being made by the Scottish Education Department on whether or not to give parents this financial help for their child, is the same income level taken into account as is taken into account for the bursaries for those children who remain at school after the age of 15? Are any other factors taken into account when this decision is made?

I have an idea that these provisions are designed to help a mother who has been suddenly widowed. I support that intention. I also understand that these provisions are used to help parents, who are very often abroad doing work for the country, to make proper provision for the education of their children, particularly when, whether they like it or not, they must send their children home to this country to be educated.

If the child is coming from abroad, and has to go to a boarding school, what part of the child's maintenance fees at the boarding school is met by the Department of Education? These children not only have to come here. Very often their parents get leave only about once in three years. None of us who has any feeling for education and for the well-being of children would want a child to be away from its parents for three years. We should want the child, particularly during the long holiday, to be able to join his parents wherever they are. That is a costly business.

I want to know the exact extent of this provision. What is being spent on it annually? What income level is taken into account? Finally, are we sure that in every case this is being used for the purpose for which it was intended and not to subsidise in some instances education which ought not to be subsidised?

Mr. Brooman-White

I think that I can clarify the situation quite briefly. As the hon. Lady the Member for Lanarkshire, North (Miss Herbison) said, this is a long-standing provision. The numbers vary from year to year. There are about 100 to 200. The annual cost is about£25,000. I have no information as to the type of family from which the children are drawn. I cannot be specific about that.

The hon. Lady was quite right in her tacit assumption about the object of the Clause. These bursaries are to enable local authorities to help families where a sudden bereavement may cause hardship, for example a parent dying when a child is half-way through its school career. As we have no facilities for transferring these children to local authority schools in Scotland, it would be very difficult to make any other arrangement, and bursaries are used for that purpose. Equally, they are provided where the parents are overseas, or are sent overseas, as technicians or soldiers, or to other posts—

Mr. Ross

The Armed Forces themselves make provision for this.

Mr. Brooman-White

I thank the hon. Gentleman for correcting me in that generalisation. Let us say technicians, and the like type of case where full provision is not made. It is to that sort of use that this power has been put hitherto, and which we shall continue to make of it.

Miss Herbison

Must the parents have some residential qualification? That is important, since some may have difficulty in proving a residential qualification to a local authority. That is why I brought in the Department.

Mr. Brooman-White

I believe that by a minor Amendment to the previous Clause we have satisfactorily overcome difficulties that (have hitherto arisen in deciding which authority is responsible. I do not think that that difficulty will arise in future.

Mr. Willis

What types of schools are mainly referred to?

Mr. Brooman-White

The local authority has discretion to give assistance to children attending any fee-paying school in Scotland.

Mr. Willis

Will the hon. Gentleman be a little more explicit about the type of school? How are these 100 or 200 pupils divided between different types of schools in Scotland? It might be such schools such as the Merchant Company Schools in Edinburgh. The provision might even apply to Fettes, or Loretto, or Gordonstoun—or any school.

Mr. Brooman-White

With the permission of the House, I would say that the provision will hardly apply to local authority schools because, strictly speaking, there are no fee-paying schools of this type in Scotland. But consideration of the matter is not affected by whether a school is grant-aided or not. Any fee-paying school in Scotland can receive this sort of assistance.

Miss Herbison

As this was merely a probing Amendment, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.