§ 23. Mr. Tilneyasked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations how many ex-members of the Colonial Service or Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service are receiving pensions from the Government of Tanganyika; how many of these are receiving increases less than those received under the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1959, of the United Kingdom; and when a public officers' agreement safeguarding conditions of service and pensions between the Government 644 of the United Kingdom and the Government of Tanganyika was signed.
§ The Joint Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations (Mr. Bernard Braine)The grant of pensions and pensions increases by independent Commonwealth Governments is a matter for those Governments, and I regret that detailed information of this sort is not available to me.
A Public Officers' Agreement between the British and Tanganyika Governments was signed on 14th March, 1962, and will be published as a White Paper.
§ Mr. TilneyWhen will the Agreement be published? Have the Government of Tanganyika given any guarantees as regards basic pensions? Would it not have been very much better if all these matters had been dealt with before independence rather than after independence?
§ Mr. BraineThe Government of Tanganyika have undertaken that pensions should be paid or continued under the laws and regulations in force on 13th March, 1962, or under laws and regulations not less favourable. We are ready to publish the White Paper, but we are seeking the agreement of the Government of Tanganyika on this now. The question whether matters should have been decided and acted upon before independence is outside the sphere of my responsibility.
§ Mr. SnowIs the hon. Gentleman aware that there is some anxiety about the conditions under which some of these pensioners are now living, in the sense that the ever-changing colonial and ex-colonial scene results in hardships which they could not possibly have foreseen? Has not the time come for the Government to consider underwriting the agreements so that the interests of these pensioners are guaranteed?
§ Mr. BraineI think that the whole House has sympathy with the pensioners in the way which the hon. Gentleman suggests. The hon. Gentleman may have observed that yesterday my right hon. Friend the Secretary for Technical Co-operation announced that an inter-departmental working party has been set up to examine this whole question.
§ Mr. Gibson-WattDoes my hon. Friend realise that this important matter affects an increasing number of people in this country? Is he aware that some of us feel that it might have been better if the Government had paid greater attention to the problems of the pensioners and had got the money side right in these newly emerging countries before they went ahead and provided large subventions for capital expansion in these areas?
§ Mr. BraineThere may be something to be said for that, but I would not wish the House to gain the impression from my hon. Friend's observation that independent Commonwealth Governments as a general rule are not paying decent pensions and granting increases commensurate with those in this country. This is not so.
§ Mr. StracheyWill the inter-departmental inquiry, which we hear of with satisfaction, have within its terms of reference arrangements by which these pensioners can still be employed in Africa in suitable cases, where I cannot help believing their services would be of enormous value to the newly independent countries and where they will be much happier than if they have no job to do at home, even though they are provided for financially? This is a matter in which a little generosity from the Treasury could make a very great difference, both to the pensioners and to the territories?
§ Mr. BraineThe terms of reference of the working party are a subject for my right hon. Friend the Secretary for Technical Co-operation. The wider question of making the best use of these former servants of the Crown is always in the Government's mind.