HC Deb 05 June 1962 vol 661 cc188-91
18. Dame Irene Ward

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what machinery he has in mind to deal, in accordance with his policy on incomes, with the cases where undertakings have been given that special arrangements will be made to cover their circumstances such as the nurses, the university teachers and the probation officers.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd)

I believe that the existing machinery will be adequate to deal with these cases.

Dame Irene Ward

First, is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of what the Home Secretary said in the House foreshadowing special machinery? Why cannot the House know what that special machinery is? Secondly, may I have an assurance that by Thursday at least there will be a statement on what happened in another place yesterday with regard to probation officers and on whether the nurses and university teachers will have the same benefits as were outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Dundee, in another place yesterday? Could the discrepancy between the House of Commons and another place please be straightened out in a statement so that the House of Commons knows exactly where these people stand?

Mr. Lloyd

If my hon. Friend will read the HANSARD report of the discussion in another place yesterday, she will not find herself under any uncertainty as to the position. With regard to her first supplementary question, I have no comment to make.

Mr. Callaghan

Does not the Chancellor of the Exchequer realise that the statement made last week on the pay of these groups and the statement in another place yesterday led people to believe that there was some intention on the Government's part to remedy the gross injustice being done to these groups? Has not the right hon. and learned Gentleman anything further to say? If not, the Government's reputation for double-talk will become even greater than it is at present.

Mr. Lloyd

To deal first with what was said in another place yesterday, since this was a statement of Govern- ment policy, I think I am entitled to quote what was said. My noble Friend the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs stated: My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary announced in the House of Commons on May 10 that the Government were in no doubt that the Probation Service ought to receive a substantial increase of pay at the appropriate time, and he has made it clear that the Government are ready to examine the wider claims of the Service at the beginning of next year. The problem is to find a way of revaluing particular and deserving services without departing from the general policy of linking wage increases to increases of productivity."— [OFFICIAL REPORT, House of Lords, 4th June, 1962; Vol. 241, c. 457.]

Mr. Callaghan

Does that mean that the Government are ready to implement the Morison Report and to give the probation officers the recommended increase?

Mr. Lloyd

I have nothing to add to what my noble Friend said on this point. This is a matter for consideration at the appropriate time, but we recognise that this is a special case. Exactly the same applies to the nurses. We have accepted the fact that there should be a reexamination of the pay structure of the profession, and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health has, with the management side, set in process means for considering that matter.

Dame Irene Ward

Does my right hon. and learned Friend honestly think it fair to talk in these generalities about what will happen at the beginning of the year? Is he aware that what he said about the management committee and the staff side is not quite accurate, because there are certain outstanding points to be decided by the staff side with the management committee before the revaluation starts? Will he kindly say Whether he will make a statement about how the machinery will operate in order to meet the revaluation to which the Home Secretary referred, as my right hon. and learned Friend is not backing up what the Home Secretary said?

Mr. Lloyd

With regard to the nurses, it would be wrong for me to make any statement (If tth4. mart that my hon. Friend requites. The proper machinery is in process of reconsidering the pay structure of the nursing professions. That process has been initiated, and I hope that progress will be made in it. I gather that there are to be discussions. There is the prospect of an early meeting. It would be wrong for me to interfere in this process.