HC Deb 25 July 1962 vol 663 cc1475-6
34. Commander Courtney

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty when it is expected that Her Majesty's submarines "Dreadnought" and "Valiant" will become operational with the fleet.

Mr. C. Ian Orr-Ewing

We hope to commission the "Dreadnought" before the end of this year. She will then require extensive triads, so I cannot forecast with any accuracy when in 1963 she will become operational with our fleet.

The "Valiant" was not laid down until this year. Any forecast so long in advance of the date when she will become operational with the fleet would have no real significance.

Commander Courtney

Is my hon. Friend aware that American nuclear submarines are now being built under the three-shift system, that about sixty are projected and that the latest will be built within a space of two years? Can my hon. Friend tell the House what the Admiralty will do to reduce the appalling time that is taken to build our own nuclear boats?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

The Admiralty and Messrs. Vickers are very anxious to speed up this building to the greatest possible extent. There has been an element of two and even three-shift working since the "Dreadnought" was launched in October, 1960. I might add that we hope that some of the unofficial disputes which have taken place may be lessened when the shipwrights and the boiler makers amalgamate and that then we might not have quite the same trouble over demarcation that we have had in the past.

Mr. Willis

Has any decision been made whether these two submarines are to be followed by other nuclear submarines?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

There is no decision at present.

Mr. Wall

Would my hon. Friend agree that the addition of two hunter-killer submarines is of limited value to our national security, whereas the addition of two Polaris submarines would be of very great value to our national security? Will he look into the matter again?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

That is another question. We must, however, get into the business of nuclear propulsion and these submarines will give us valuable experience, both in building and in training and in the operating of these vessels.

Mr. Speaker

The Clerk will now proceed to read the Orders of the Day.

Mr. Nabarro

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, you terminated Questions today at 3.29 and 40 seconds—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—20 seconds ahead of schedule, thereby depriving me of the opportunity of asking Question No. 35. [An HON. MEMBER: "The clock had struck."] No, the clock had not struck. My right hon. Friend is quite wrong: it had not struck. We were about 20 seconds ahead of schedule. In those circumstances, Mr. Speaker, could I be allowed the opportunity to ask my Question No. 35?

Hon. Members: No.

Mr. Speaker

I regret we were not able to hear the hon. Member asking his Question, but I am afraid that the House has to entrust to me observing and heading what the time is.