MEMBERS' SALARIES (Hansard, 24 July 1962)

§ Q1. Mr. Gurden
asked the Prime Minister what consultations there have been with regard to finding acceptable machinery to investigate and determine the scales of payment of honourable Members of Parliament and Ministers.

§ Q2. Mr. Mason
asked the Prime Minister if he will now give consideration to the proposal that a non-Parliamentary Commission be appointed to examine the present method and scale of payment to honourable Members of Parliament and Ministers with a view to allowing recommendations which would provide a more permanent solution of payment for the future.

§ Q3. Mr. Thorpe
asked the Prime Minister what proposals he has for setting up independent machinery to recommend appropriate salary scales for Ministers and honourable Members of Parliament.

§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Macmillan)
I am considering various suggested methods of dealing with Ministers' and Members' salaries, but I do not at present contemplate setting up special machinery.

§ Mr. Gurden
Does my right hon. Friend recognise that this problem always causes extreme difficulties for any party which is in government? Is it not properly the responsibility of all hon. Members, and could we, perhaps, invite the comments of the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Liberal Party on this matter?

§ The Prime Minister
Of course, I understand the difficulties, but I am not 1271 persuaded that the House is anxious to hand over its responsibilities to some other body.

§ Mr. Mason
Might I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the extent of his reply, which indicated that at least the matter was under review and that he was considering what he could do? Is he not aware that it is in the interests of all hon. Members, Ministers and, indeed, the public that we should stop this consistent, periodic, sordid survey of hon. Members' salaries, which has been subject now for many years to a three-or four-year periodic review? Would it not be far better if the suggestion contained in the all-party Questions on the Order Paper could be adopted by the Prime Minister? Has he anything in mind to assess this particular point of view of the House?

§ The Prime Minister
Of course, I am conscious of the arguments. On the other hand, I think there are some arguments for which the House should accept its own responsibilities. However, as I say, I am considering this matter which, I think, is really in the long run a matter about which the general sense of the House should be taken.

§ Sir C. Osborne
Is the Prime Minister aware that many hon. Members and far more people outside think that it would be most untimely to take this step now? Before he is induced to take this step, will my right hon. Friend consider what repercussions there would be among, fox instance, the old-age pensioners?

§ The Prime Minister
All these matters are, of course, relevant, but the real question is on whom should the responsibility lie?

§ Mr. Gaitskell
Is the Prime Minister aware that most of us would accept the point made by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Mr. Gurden) that this is essentially a matter for the House as a whole and that it should be considered by ail parties together? The Prime Minister said that he had been considering ways and moans. Would he be prepared to receive an all-party deputation —perhaps the three hon. Members who have tabled the Questions under discussion could represent other hon. 1272 Members—to discuss their particular proposal? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, while appreciating that there are certain objections to outside bodies, there is also a fairly strong argument in favour of this kind of decision being, to some extent, supported by outside evidence and the views of outsiders? Many of us feel that there is something a little undignified for the House of Commons to have continually to revert to this subject. Many of us would support a system such as exists in some countries whereby the salaries of hon. Members are automatically related to those of other public servants.

§ The Prime Minister
I am willing to consider all these questions. If the Leader of the Opposition would like to discuss the matter with me personally, or if there were a desire for an all-party deputation either to me or the Leader of the House, we would be happy to receive it.

§ Mr. Grimond
The House will be grateful to the Prime Minister for having said that he has got the matter under consideration. It is never a convenient moment for the House of Commons, of its own accord, to vote itself an increase in salary. This is a powerful reason for having a more detached process for deciding whether an increase is justified. I hope, therefore, that the right hon. Gentleman will seriously consider the suggestions that have been made to him.

§ The Prime Minister
All these matters, of course, would be discussed if we had this meeting.