HC Deb 04 July 1962 vol 662 cc532-4
11. Mr. Boyden

asked the Minister of Transport what were the estimated financial losses caused by accidents arising from travel by train and road, respectively, within the United Kingdom during 1961.

Mr. Marples

In a study of the cost of road accidents in 1952, the Road Research Laboratory estimated the loss to the community as a result of road accidents at £ 72 million. Allowing for the increase in the number of accidents and changes in the value of money since 1952, the cost of road accidents is currently estimated at about £ 160 million. No such estimate of the financial loss arising from train accidents is available.

Mr. Boyden

Does not the right hon. Gentleman have in his Department any research workers who are studying how railways can relieve the danger and cost of accidents on the roads?

Mr. Marples

We have a number of studies on the subject of the railways going on, most of which are concerned with how much traffic which is suitable can be induced to come back to the railways. The question of road safety certainly comes into this, but we have no specific part of my Department looking into the question of how accidents could be reduced in this way.

Mr. Boyden

Surely this is one of the fundamental weaknesses in the whole situation? If Dr. Beeching can study the possibilities of the railways, surely the Ministry of Transport has an obligation to study whether roads and railways can be integrated from the points of view of safety and economy?

Mr. Marples

That is just what I have said.

Mr. P. Noel-Baker

Is it not a fact that the annual loss from railway accidents is far less than the £ 160 million which the Minister estimates for road accidents? Is not the estimate of £ 160 million very modest indeed, and have not others made a much larger estimate? Is not this a factor which the Minister ought to take into account while he is forcing traffic on to the roads and destroying the railways?

Mr. Marples

I really must object to the right hon. Gentleman's saying that I am forcing traffic on to the roads. Traffic is going on to the roads because the people of this country wish to go on to the roads. I am not forcing it on to the roads. [Interruption.]

Mr. Manuel

The right hon. Gentleman is. [Interruption.]

Mr. Marples

The very democrats who voted for the right hon. Gentleman—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We have a daily struggle to get through a reasonable number of Questions. If the noise of answer and question is drowned by counter-assertions shouted, we make even less progress.

12. Mr. Boyden

asked the Minister of Transport how many people were injured and admitted to hospital as a result of train and road accidents, respectively, within the United Kingdom during 1961.

Mr. Marples

The number of people admitted to hospital as a result of road and train accidents is not available. The number of people seriously injured in road accidents in Great Britain, whether or nor, admitted to hospital, was 84,936; 55,844 of these were drivers or passengers in motor vehicles. The number of persons seriously injured in train accidents in Great Britain during 1961 was 111, of whom 51 were passengers.

Mr. Boyden

While I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman's concern about road safety purely with regard to the roads, is not his whole attitude to coordination of rail and road from the point of view of reducing road accidents thoroughly flippant?

Mr. Marples

No, Sir.

Mr. Mellish

But will the right hon. Gentleman please at any rate take it from us that his argument about profit on the railways must surely be measured against the safety of the railways? If one is to strike a balance sheet, is it not fair in the interests of the community that we should say that train travel is that much safer and that we should encourage people to go by train, rather than close down branch lines, as the right hon. Gentleman intends to do?

Mr. Marples

The choice is for the people themselves.