HC Deb 30 January 1962 vol 652 cc883-7
4. Mr. Darling

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that the amount of time given to advertisements between 7.30 p.m. and 10.25 p.m. on Sunday, 12th November, 1961, in the Independent Television Authority programme devoted to the Royal Variety Show was so great as to detract from the value of the programme; and, in view of this, if he will consult the Independent Television Authority under Section 4 of the Television Act, 1954, with a view to making amendments to Schedule 2 of the Act, limiting the amount of advertisements that is permissible on Sunday evenings.

Mr. Bevins

Under the Television Act it is the duty of the I.T.A. to see that the amount of time given to advertising is not such as to detract from the value of the programmes as a medium of entertainment, instruction and information. The Authority tells me that the amount of time given to advertising during the television programme in question did not exceed the maximum allowed by them. The answer to the second part of the Question is, "No, Sir".

Mr. Darling

Is the Postmaster-General aware that there were twenty-one minutes advertising in this programme, which must have brought in about £150,000, and that although the artistes gave their services free for this so-called charity show only about £20,000 was handed over? Does not he think it wrong in principle for vast profits to be made by private interests out of charities of this kind?

Mr. Bevins

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman is quite accurate. My information is that there were eighteen minutes of advertising during the course of this programme, and that in all respects the advertising was within the Authority's rules. For example, there were six minutes of advertising in the two hours 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock and 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock. This is a minute less than the maximum allowed of seven minutes per hour. In regard to the second part of the question, my information is that in addition to the heavy production costs which were incurred in putting on this show, the programme company gave £12,000 to the Variety Artistes' Benevolent Fund, and that all in all this was less profitable as a Sunday evening show than is normally the case.

Mr. Darling

While the sponsoring company, A.T.V., may not have made anything out of it, is he aware that the other network companies must have made at least £60,000 to £70,000? Should not this excessive profit also be handed over to the charity?

Mr. Bevins

I do not think that that question arises out of the Question on the Order Paper.

Mr. Mayhew

Would not it be in the interests of programme companies to try to improve their image a little by being less mercenary?

Mr. Bevins

That may be true, and it may well be that Sir Harry Pilkington's Committee will have something to say about that.

5. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Postmaster-General if he will have consultations with the Independent Television Authority with a view to making regulations amending Schedule 2 of the Television Act, 1954, imposing restrictions on the advertising of tobacco and cigarettes.

16. Mr. Lipton

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will consult the Independent Television Authority with a view to amending the rules as to advertisements in order to restrict tobacco advertising in commercial television programmes.

Mr. Bevins

The answer is, "No", Sir.

Mr. Allaun

But since a connection between cigarettes and lung cancer has now been proved, would not the Minister consider two alternatives, either extending the present ban on such advertisements during children's hours, until 9 o'clock, even though children may still be watching, or, preferably, banning these advertisements altogether on television, particularly since they are deliberately being aimed at young people, with all kinds of romantic associations?

Mr. Bevins

I well understand the point of the hon. Gentleman's question, but I think it is fair to say that most people in this country are well aware of the risks involved in heavy smoking. The decision whether to smoke is really a matter of personal choice. Perhaps I might add that the I.T.A. bans the advertising of cigarettes and tobacco during children's programmes, but I think that it would be a rather extraordinary step to go further and ban such advertising during normal peak hours. If one were to do that on television, why not through other media of advertising?

Mr. Lipton

Is the Postmaster-General aware that the distillers, by praiseworthy arrangement, do not advertise their wares on commercial television, and that that is done without any apparent detriment to their prosperity? Why cannot the Postmaster-General seek to bring about a similar arrangement on the part of cigarette manufacturers? Surely if the Ministry of Health is trying to encourage local authorities to advertise the dangers of excessive cigarette smoking, we ought to co-operate with it to that extent?

Mr. Bevins

The answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question is "Yes". As regards the second, I do not think that at any time my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health has represented that this sort of advertising should be banned on television.

Mr. F. Noel-Baker

Is the Minister aware that he has left us in some confusion following the remarks in the House of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade, who on a number of occasions has said that he is looking into the possibility of banning tobacco advertising on television? Will the Postmaster-General consult his hon. Friend and came to a more satisfactory conclusion?

Mr. Bevins

I have read in full what my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade said. He did not commit me or the Government to imposing a ban of this kind.

Mr. W. R. Williams

Will the right hon. Gentleman try to come half-way to meet us? I think the House will agree that it is the responsibility of the Government and others to see what they can do to minimise the effect of smoking on young people. Cannot he do something between the hours of five and seven o'clock when it is not unreasonable for some of these young people to be watching television? Will he consider that aspect of it?

Mr. Bevins

I would be willing to look at this aspect of it. I realise that strong views are held on this subject, but at the moment I am not convinced that the case for complete prohibition has been made out.

11. Mr. Mayhew

asked the Postmaster-General what consultations he has had with the Independent Television Authority under Section 4 (4) of the Television Act, 1954, with a view to reducing the maximum amount of advertising permitted in any hour from seven minutes to six or less.

Mr. Bevins

None, Sir.

Mr. Mayhew

Is the Minister aware that a recent opinion survey has confirmed—if confirmation was necessary—that the great majority of viewers are sick to death of these incessant commercials? Is he aware that for several years the Government and the Authority imposed no maximum at all on the programme companies at peak hours? The present maximum of seven minutes is far too much. Will the Minister now cease sheltering behind the Pilkington Committee and assert himself on behalf of the viewers and the intentions of the Act and not on behalf of the commercial interests involved?

Mr. Bevins

I am not sheltering behind the Pilkington Committee. Indeed, I hope shortly to march forward with it. Under an I.T.A. rule there is a limit of six minutes spot advertising, averaged over the day, and the maximum amount in any hour has been progressively brought down from eight minutes in 1959 to seven and a half minutes in September, 1960, and seven minutes in December, 1960. That is reasonable, although there must clearly be some flexibility according to the nature and type of programme.

Mr. Lipton

Is the Minister in favour of all this rubbish which is advertised on television programmes? Surely, as a civilised person, he can answer "Yes" or "No".

Mr. Bevins

That is not a matter for me.