§ 3.32 p.m.
§ Dr. Donald Johnson (Carlisle)I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make compulsory the vaccination of infants under the age of six months; and for purposes connected therewith.It is only two days ago, consequent on Questions in connection with the recent smallpox epidemic, that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health announced his aim to achieve a routine of 100 per cent. infant vaccination in this country. I can safely say that, in the light of the dangers of this disease, the vast majority of hon. Members will agree that this is a desirable objective. My proposed Bill is designed to strengthen the Minister's hand in this respect.It is a short Bill and contains two Clauses. The first provides that the parent of every child born in England and Wales shall, within six months after the birth of the child, cause it to be vaccinated against smallpox. The second is the conscience Clause and since many hon. Members will be interested in it I will read it in detail. It states:
Any person failing to carry out the duty imposed by the foregoing Section shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding ten pounds, but no parent or other person shall be so liable if within six months after the birth of the child he makes a declaration in writing that he conscientiously believes that vaccination would be prejudicial to the health of the child, and within seven days thereafter delivers or sends by post the declaration to the local health authority of the district.One could not have anything very much more widely drawn than that as a con- science Clause. It is drawn so widely, in fact, that it almost makes the word "compulsory" something of a misnomer in respect of the Bill.It provides, however, two things: first, that it will be an easy business for the authorities to keep a register of those who have and have not been vaccinated; and, secondly, it places the onus on the parents to make the decision so that at least they must think and reflect on the matter. We are all so familiar with the difference between "contracting in" and "contracting out" in other contexts that I need not dwell on this subject.
I must admit that so far I have had some difficulty in convincing my right 1317 hon. Friend of the necessity of a provision of this character, for I understand that he wishes to keep it on a voluntary basis. The historic powers of compulsory vaccination, which dated back to 1867, were abolished by the 1946 National Health Service Act and despite the very low figure at the moment—of only 41 per cent. of vaccinations—my right hon. Friend still wishes to keep it on a voluntary basis and not to reintroduce any compulsory powers.
I understand that my right hon. Friend has two main reason for this. First, he feels that vaccination against smallpox is on a par with other inoculations and vaccinations which are all provided for on a voluntary basis. In answer to that, I submit that smallpox is a distinctive disease. It has a higher death rate than any of the other diseases, serious though they may be. Further, it is a very horrible disease indeed in its serious form. Likewise, it has a greater infectiousness which occurs in an extremely capricious sort of way.
Perhaps I might quote the case of the Pakistani girl in Bradford, which arose during the recent epidemic. Not until after death was this recognised as a case of smallpox, when a number of other cases were traced back to this patient, who had originally been diagnosed as suffering from malaria. Then there is the case, a few years ago, of the R.A.F. officer who came home from Pakistan, who brought the infection home in his clothes and who infected members of his family. This is the type of infectious disease we are up against, and the dangers of which are recognised throughout the world.
The arguments I have adduced are, for instance, recognised in the International Certificate of Vaccination and I can proudly display one of these certificates as my own possession. The certificate provides for smallpox alone as a compulsory vaccination as distinct from the other diseases with which we here are familiar. The other diseases on the certificate are yellow fever and cholera with which, fortunately, we are not yet concerned in this country.[HON. MEMBERS: "Not yet?"] Not to the same extent, as yet.
The second reason is that it is represented that the percentage of vaccinations has not changed very much 1318 between 1946—when they were compulsory—and now. The qualification to that statement is that after 1948, when compulsory vaccination was abolished, the numbers dropped by 14 per cent. from 41 per cent. to about 27 per cent., and only gradually recovered over some years of health propaganda. A figure of 41 per cent. has, however, not been enough to prevent the state of near-hysteria we have recently seen in the demand in various parts of the country for vaccination.
Voluntary vaccination figures are highly variable. In my own constituency of Carlisle it is 75 per cent., while in other parts it is as low as 19 per cent. or 20 per cent. We should do very much better than that in the new circumstances, because we must remember that one of the reasons why the figures were so low in the days of compulsion was that a visit from the public vaccinator and getting free vaccination involved a visit from the Poor Law doctor, as generally the two offices were held by the same person.
We have in addition, however, what the scientists like to call a "control experiment". For, although vaccination became voluntary in England and Wales it remained compulsory in Northern Ireland, and I can give comparative figures for the two countries. In 1958, the percentage of vaccination in Great Britain was 44.5; in Northern Ireland, 80.3. In 1959–45 per cent, in Great Britain and 73.9 per cent. in Northern Ireland. In 1960—Great Britain, 41.3 per cent.; Northern Ireland, 80 per cent. We want to do as well as or better than Northern Ireland in our vaccination figures.
We need to achieve such figures not only for our own safety, but also because of our international obligations, because this has become an international matter. I have received a lot of correspondence about my proposed Bill. The writers either agree or disagree with compulsory vaccination, but even those who disagree emphasise that we should protect ourselves by insisting on people who come into this country producing vaccination certificates. On Monday, we even had the hon. Lady the Member for Blackburn (Mrs. Castle) asking us to insist on people from Europe producing vaccination certificates. But how can we 1319 make such a demand and yet contract out of compulsion ourselves?
Therefore, for our own protection and that of our infant population, and because of our moral obligations to other countries, I hope that the Motion will receive the favour of the House.
§ 3.43 p.m.
§ Dr. J. Dickson Mabon (Greenock)I oppose the Motion, but I want to make it clear that I do not at all dissent from the argument that all infants under six months should be vaccinated, and that parents should be so advised. The proposed Bill, however, is the wrong way of going about things.
It is rather extraordinary that we should find the hon. Member for Carlisle (Dr. D. Johnson)—the champion of liberty—wanting to adopt the authoritarian approach that the Bill would imply. A Parliamentary Answer given a few weeks ago confirmed that the pre-war figures, when vaccination was compulsory—including the conscience Clause, which the hon. Member would concede in his Bill—were little different from present voluntary vaccination figures.
I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Member if he complains that the Government have so far been unwilling or unable to promote the propaganda necessary to induce people to have their children vaccinated. I am only sorry that he has not directed more of his criticisms to his right hon. Friend the Minister of Health but, instead, is trying to impose a new law of compulsion on people.
It is perfectly clear to many of us that a lot of this trouble has arisen from the scare over smallpox consequent on the recent Pakistani incident in Bradford, but the same thing could well have happened had the person concerned been a Manchester businessman. He could have arrived from Karachi by plane and gone straight back to Manchester, or anywhere else, and could well have brought the infection with him. That case was not an argument in favour of compulsion, but one in favour of making available better port-of-entry 1320 health-checking facilities, and promoting propaganda in favour of voluntary vaccination.
We have the experience of the immunisation campaigns against poliomyelitis and diphtheria. Both of those campaigns were admirable, both were overwhelmingly successful, and both consisted of an appeal to people's intelligence and good sense, and not of putting their backs up by making immunisation compulsory except on grounds of conscience.
Unfortunately, the hon. Gentleman has once again acted in the face of the medical profession. There is no general demand among doctors for the return of compulsory vaccination, but there is a demand among them for the Ministry to do more to publicise protection. The General Medical Services Committee recently decided to postpone discussion of immunisation procedures against all diseases until the present scare had died down, because many people feel that an attempt is being made—and I hope that the hon. Gentleman can dissociate himself from it—to gain some dubious party political capital out of present difficulties—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Mr. Gurden) charged my party with being responsible for those deaths. A more unscrupulous and disgusting accusation I have never heard of, and I resent it very much——
§ Mr. Harold Gurden (Birmingham, Selly Oak) rose——
§ Dr. MabonI cannot give way. The hon. Gentleman made that charge against my party on Monday. He made a personal charge against all of us, and I resent it. It is wrong that such a thing should become the shuttlecock of party politics.
We should recognise that the Minister himself does not favour the proposed Bill; that it is retrogressive; that it is against the whole idea of modern medicine, and that it is not wanted by the medical profession. I hope that the House will reject the Motion.
§ Mr. GurdenOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I should like your guidance on whether or not I am entitled to make a 1321 denial of a statement that was quite untrue.
§ Mr. SpeakerIt is not a point of order, and there is no such procedure known to the House as a point of guidance.
§ Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 12 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of Public Business):—
§ The House divided: Ayes 77, Noes 186.
1323| Division No. 89.] | AYES | [3.48 p.m. |
| Agnew, Sir Peter | Harrison, Brian (Maldon) | Prior-Palmer, Brig. Sir Otho |
| Allason, James | Hendry, Forbes | Rankin, John |
| Barlow, Sir John | Herbison, Miss Margaret | Reid, William |
| Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton | Hill, J. (Midlothian) | Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon) |
| Bence, Cyril | Hocking, Philip N. | Robertson, Sir D. (C'thn's & S'th'ld) |
| Bennett, J. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) | Howard, John (Southampton, Test) | Shaw, M. |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Iremonger, T. L. | Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'd & Chiswick) |
| Bishop, F. P. | Jennings, J. C. | Stodart, J. A. |
| Bossom, Clive | Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) | Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir Malcolm |
| Box, Donald | John, Eric (Blackley) | Storey, Sir Samuel |
| Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. | Johnson Smith, Geoffrey | Talbot, John E. |
| Browne, Percy (Torrington) | Kerans, Cdr. J. S. | Tapsell, Peter |
| Clark, William (Nottingham, S.) | Kerby, Capt. Henry | Thomas, George (Cardiff, W.) |
| Cleaver, Leonard | King, Dr. Horace | Tiley, Arthur (Bradford, W.) |
| Cooper, A. E. | Kitson, Timothy | Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H. |
| Crowder, F. P. | Langford-Holt, Sir John | Tweedsmuir, Lady |
| Digby, Simon Wingfield | Lawson, George | Vickers, Miss Joan |
| Dodds, Norman | Leather, E. H. C. | Walker, Peter |
| Donaldson, Cmdr. C. E. M. | Lucas, Sir Jocelyn | Watkins, Tudor |
| Doughty, Charles | Maclean, Sir Fitzroy (Bute & N. Ayrs.) | Webster, David |
| Duncan, Sir James | McMaster, Stanley R. | Williams, Lt. (Abertillery) |
| Emery, Peter | Manual, A. C. | Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro) |
| Farey-Jones, F. W. | Mapp, Charles | Wise, A. R. |
| Forrest, George | Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. | |
| Goodhew, Victor | Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Gresham Cooke, R. | Plummer, Sir Leslie | Mr. Gower and Mr. Gurden. |
| Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.W.) | Popplewell, Ernest | |
| NOES | ||
| Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) | Fernyhough, E. | Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) |
| Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) | Finlay, Graeme | Joseph, Sir Keith |
| Arbuthnot, John | Fisher, Nigel | Kenyon, Clifford |
| Awbery, Stan | Foot, Dingle (Ipswich) | Kershaw, Anthony |
| Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. | Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) | Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. |
| Benson, Sir George | Forman, J. C. | Kimball, Marcus |
| Black, Sir Cyril | Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) | Kirk, Peter |
| Blackburn, F. | Galpern, Sir Myer | Leburn, Gilmour |
| Blyton, William | Glyn, Sir Richard (Dorset, N.) | Lee, Frederick (Newton) |
| Bourne-Arton, A. | Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. | Lewis, Arthur (West Ham, N.) |
| Bowles, Frank | Grant, Rt. Hon. William | Lilley, F. J. P. |
| Boyden, James | Green, Alan | Lindsay, Sir Martin |
| Brockway, A. Fenner | Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) | Lipton, Marcus |
| Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. Sir Walter | Grimond, Rt. Hon, J. | Litchfield, Capt. John |
| Brooke, Rt. Hon. Henry | Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.) | Longbottom, Charles |
| Brooman-White, R. | Hall, Rt. Hn. Glenvil (Colne Valley) | Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Belper) | Hamilton, Michael (Wellingborough) | McCann, John |
| Brown, Thomas (Ince) | Hamilton, William (West Fife) | MacColl, James |
| Bryan, Paul | Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) | McInnes, James |
| Butler, Herbert (Hackney, C.) | Hart, Mrs. Judith | McKay, John (Wallsend) |
| Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) | Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere (Macclesf'd) | McLaren, Martin |
| Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) | Hay, John | Maclay, Rt. Hon. John |
| Cary, Sir Robert | Hayman, F. H. | McLeavy, Frank |
| Castle, Mrs. Barbara | Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel | Macleod, Rt. Hn. Iain (Enfield, W.) |
| Channon, H. P. G. | Henderson, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Rwly Regis) | MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) |
| Chataway, Christopher | Hicks Beach, Maj. W. | MacPherson, Niall (Dumfries) |
| Costain, A. P. | Hill, J. E. B. (S. Norfolk) | Maddan, Martin |
| Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) | Holland, Philip | Maitland, Sir John |
| Cullen, Mrs. Alice | Holman, Percy | Marten, Neil |
| Dance, James | Holt, Arthur | Mason, Roy |
| Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | Howell, Denis (Small Heath) | Matthews, Gordon (Meriden) |
| d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry | Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) | Mayhew, Christopher |
| Dempsey, James | Hughes-Young, Michael | Millan, Bruce |
| Diamond, John | Hutchison, Michael Clark | Mitchison, G. R. |
| Donnelly, Desmond | Hynd, John (Attercliffe) | Moore, Sir Thomas (Ayr) |
| Drayson, G. B. | Irving, Sydney (Dartford) | Nabarro, Gerald |
| Ede, Rt. Hon. C. | Jackson, John | Noel-Baker, Rt. Hn. Philip (Derby, S.) |
| Eden, John | James, David | Oakshott, Sir Hendrie |
| Edwards, Robert (Bilston) | Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich) | Oliver, G. H. |
| Emmet, Hon. Mrs. Evelyn | Jones, Rt. Hn. A. Creech (Wakefield) | Oram, A. E. |
| Erroll, Rt. Hon. F. J. | Jones, Elwyn (West Ham, S.) | Oswald, Thomas |
| Pannell, Charles (Leeds, W.) | Ross, William | Thomson, G. M. (Dundee, E.) |
| Partridge, E. | Sharples, Richard | Thorneycroft, Rt. Hon. Peter |
| Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) | Shepherd, William | Thornton, Ernest |
| Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe) | Shinwell, Rt. Hon. E. | Tilney, John (Wavertree) |
| Peel, John | Silverman, Julius (Aston) | Timmons, John |
| Pentland, Norman | Silverman, Sydney (Nelson) | Touche, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon |
| Peyton, John | Skeffington, Arthur | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Pott, Percivall | Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.) | Wade, Donald |
| Powell, Rt. Hon. J. Enoch | Small, William | Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.) |
| Price, J. T. (Westhoughton) | Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.) | Weitzman, David |
| Probert, Arthur | Smithers, Peter | Wells, Percy (Faversham) |
| Proudfoot, Wilfred | Snow, Julian | White, Mrs. Eirene |
| Pym, Francis | Spearman, Sir Alexander | Wilkins, W. A. |
| Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin | Steele, Thomas | Williams, W. R. (Openshaw) |
| Renton, David | Stewart, Michael (Fulham) | Willis, E. G. (Edinburgh, E.) |
| Reynolds, G. W. | Symonds, J. B. | Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A. |
| Rhodes, H. | Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield) | Woodnutt, Mark |
| Ridsdale, Julian | Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) | Woof, Robert |
| Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | Teeling, Sir William | Yates, Victor (Ladywood) |
| Robertson, John (Paisley) | Temple, John M. | |
| Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) | Thomas, Iorwerth (Rhondda, W.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Ropner, Sir Leonard | Thompson, Dr. Alan (Dunfermline) | Mr. Hannan and Mr. H. Hynd. |