HC Deb 14 February 1962 vol 653 cc1289-92
3. Mr. Owen

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has now received reports from the Northumberland Transport Consultative Committee, concerning the closure of branch lines, the limitation of other branch lines, and the availability of alternative means of transport; and whether he will make a statement.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Mr. John Hay)

The Transport Users Consultative Committee for the North Eastern Area send copies of its minutes to the Central Transport Consultative Committee and to the British Transport Commission. The Central Committee have not drawn the attention of my right hon. Friend to any reports of the North Eastern Area Committee since his reply to the hon. Member's Question on 20th December last.

Mr. Owen

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the closure of branch lines continues and that it has a serious economic effect upon both rural and urban areas? Is not he prepared to give further consideration to the necessity to provide adequate transport facilities in Northumberland?

Mr. Hay

That goes far wide of the Question on the Order Paper. The hon. Member asked whether we had received reports from this Consultative Committee. The answer is, "Not since 20th December."

7. Mr. Hector Hughes

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware that the closure of certain branch railway lines in the north of Scotland has militated against the bringing of trade, industry, employment and population to the north of Scotland; and if he will place in the Library the evidence which he received from the Central Transport Consultative Committee before deciding to order each of those closures.

Mr. Hay

The few closures of branch lines in the north of Scotland which have taken place in recent years were approved by the Transport Users Consultative Committee for Scotland, who made no recommendation to us. No doubt they took into account, as is their usual practice, the availability of alter native services and any firm plans for industrial development.

Mr. Hughes

Does not the Minister realise that, by closing branch lines in the north of Scotland without due inquiry, he is making chaos of the policy of the Secretary of State for Scotland who is doing his best to bring trade, industry and commerce to the north of Scotland? Will the Minister of Transport agree to consult the Secretary of State for Scotland so that they can put their heads together to formulate some constructive and useful policy instead of having this destructive policy?

Mr. Hay

The Minister of Transport does not close branch lines. That is a matter for the British Transport Commission. Parliament has laid down a consultative committee procedure which serves to bring to the surface any views such as those mentioned by the hon. and learned Member. These are taken into account by my right hon. Friend when he is asked to approve or disprove the proposals of the Commission.

Mr. Mellish

May we have an assurance that where a branch line is closed on the recommendation of any body, and where it can be shown that there is a public need although an economic loss, the Government will if necessary subsidise the branch line in order that it may be retained?

Mr. Hay

I can give no assurance of that kind. Each case is looked at entirely on its merits. We do all we can to obtain the fullest possible information from all those who may be affected by the closure of a line or the withdrawing of a service.

25. Mr. Boyden

asked the Minister of Transport why he declined to meet the deputation from the Stainmore Line Protest Committee, who wished to see him regarding the reasons for his decision to approve the closing of the line, in view of the widely representative character of that committee and their experience of freight traffic on this and associated lines.

Mr. Hay

My right hon. Friend received the letter suggesting that he should meet the deputation more than a month after his decision was announced, and only ten days before the line was due to be closed. Both the area transport users' consultative committees and the central committee had examined the proposal with the greatest care and had recommended closure. My right hon. Friend therefore considered that no useful purposes would be served by his receiving a deputation.

Mr. Boyden

That is what the Minister said on two previous occasions. Is the hon. Member aware that the original case for closing this line was based on a 25 per cent. error as to the freight which could be hauled over Stainmore? Is he aware that following this every consultative committee must have gone wrong because every decision was based on the original error?

Mr. Hay

All I can say is that the area transport users' consultative committees went into this matter with the greatest care. They held no fewer than six meetings. Objectors had ample opportunity to make representations during the two years which elapsed between the original announcement and the Minister's final decision. On week days in the winter on this line the average number of passengers per train was twenty and between forty and fifty railwaymen were on duty to run those trains.

Mr. Popplewell

Does not the Minister realise that transport users' consultative committees cannot make recommendations for a line to remain open and that the responsibility for keeping a line open rests on his shoulders, if he gives such a directive? In view of the social need for this line, will he not take a rather broader-minded view and give a directive that the line should be kept open in order to meet the needs of this very sparsely populated area?

Mr. Hay

It is not a case of taking a broad-minded or a narrow-minded view. Many of these branch lines all over the country are losing money simply because they are not patronised. The Ministry has a dual responsibility to the nation and to the House for the spending of the public money which is involved in this subsidy.

Mr. Rodgers

Does not my hon. Friend think that it is a little odd that when consultative committees recommend the closure of a line he hides behind this decision, but that when a consultative committee recommends that a line should be kept open, as was the case in the Dunton Green-Westerham Line, he still closes it?

Mr. Hay

No. Sir. With respect to my hon. Friend, he is completely distorting the situation. There is no comparison between these two cases. I have already dealt very fully with this case, and my hon. Friend should remember the very detailed correspondence and the meetings which he and I had on the closure to which he referred.

29. Mr. Box

asked the Minister of Transport if he will give a general direction to the British Transport Commission to pay compensation to coal merchants who are dispossessed of facilities by the closure of railway stations and yards.

Mr. Marples

No, Sir. This is a matter between the Commission and the coal merchants.

Mr. Box

Is my right hon. Friend aware that reports have been appearing in responsible sections of the Press recently that some thousands of pounds have already been paid in the form of compensation in some parts of England? Can he give an estimate of what the total figure is likely to be, particularly in respect of Wales, where considerable rail closures are in contemplation?

Mr. Marples

I cannot do that without notice. Perhaps my hon. Friend will let me have these statements from some responsible parts of the Press.

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