HC Deb 20 December 1962 vol 669 cc1441-6
Mr. Healey

(by Private Notice) asked the First Secretary of State, as the Minister responsible for Central African affairs, if he will lay on the Table a full account of the confidential and hitherto unpublished exchanges which took place in 1953 concerning the Central African Federation.

The First Secretary of State (Mr. R. A. Butler)

It is important to respect the confidential character of documents and Her Majesty's Government must also consider the position of the other parties concerned.

Mr. Healey

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we regard this as a very serious matter? Is he aware that if the allegations made by the Federal Prime Minister in Central Africa are true—they were confirmed in another place by three ex-Ministers concerned—it is not only a heavy blow to Britain's reputation for honesty in world affairs, in illustrating the deplorable collapse in the standards of Government which has taken place during the last ten years, but it also raises a matter of direct concern to this House; because would not it appear that the Ministers renounced the power of legislation, which two Lord Chancellors have said is vested exclusively in the United Kingdom Parliament, without telling the British Parliament about it?

Is the right hon. Gentleman also aware that many of us still feel that the conduct of the noble Lords who concealed these pledges from the British Parliament and people is as furtive and dishonourable as that of the right hon. Gentlemen who broke the pledges?

Mr. Butler

I cannot give any further answer to the long and carefully prepared question of the hon. Gentleman. I am asked whether I will publish or not and I have said that consideration has to be given to the parties concerned and to the confidential nature of what was a conference attended by a variety of Governments. That I will do, but I cannot take the matter further today. The only remark I can make in answer to the hon. Gentleman's generalisations is that what I stated yesterday is the absolute truth, that Great Britain has the inalienable right to act in these matters.

Mr. Healey

Is it not the case, according to statements by Her Majesty's Government's ex-Ministers in another place and by the Federal Prime Minister of the Central African Federation, that Her Majesty's Ministers renounced this right in secret without telling the British Parliament and people about it at the beginning of 1953? Is it not also the case that verbatim accounts of these exchanges have already been published in Salisbury, and is it not the duty of the Government to the British people, and to the world, to clear up this matter, and, if the allegations as stated are true, to resign?

Mr. Butler

I answered this matter quite clearly in a short supplementary answer yesterday and it was answered at length by the Lord Chancellor in another place yesterday. I do not propose to go into the merits or the demerits of this question, but simply to confine myself to answering the question about publication which, as I say, needs consideration.

Mr. J. Griffiths

As one who took a considerable part in the earlier discussions on this matter, may I ask the First Secretary whether he will tell the House that no pledge of any kind was given to those who represented the Europeans at this conference on Central Africa?

Mr. Butler

I cannot go into the merits or the demerits of this question in answering supplementary questions on the question of publication. I dealt with the matter yesterday and my answer, I think, bears examination and will be found to be correct.

Mr. Griffiths

I am not asking the right hon. Gentleman to go into details. It is a matter of the publication of documents, and that is another question. I am asking—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We are getting into collision with order for the reason that more than once the right hon. Gentleman has declined to go beyond, or he is declining to answer questions going beyond, the question of publication. That means a refusal to answer about other matters, and another question on the same lines would now be out of order. That is the difficulty.

Mr. Griffiths

Surely there are two things which we wish to know. The first is the question whether the documents, which are confidential, should be published or not. That is one matter. There is the other matter—since we are adjourning at the end of this week—which is that, in view of the statements which have been made to the effect that pledges were given, will the First Secretary confirm or deny that pledges were given?

Mr. Butler

I am not prepared to carry the matter any further today. I am prepared only to consider the question put to me about publication.

Mr. Gordon Walker

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think it very unfortunate that hon. Members should have to read the HANSARD of the Southern Rhodesia or Federal Parliament in order to discover documents to which this Government were a party and which this Government will not publish so that we might be able to see them here, in our own publication?

Mr. Butler

I expressed earlier my regret, and that of Her Majesty's Government, that confidential documents and exchanges should have been published by one party when, as I said in my Answer, there were several parties to this conference. I do not think that publication should be made of documents to which several parties adhered without considering their position.

Mr. M. Foot

Charges have been made in Salisbury which involved the personal honour of a series of Ministers and the honour of this Government as a whole. Is not it most remarkable that the First Secretary is not able to deny these charges? Does he plead guilty or not guilty to the accusations? How does he say that this matter is to be resolved? It cannot be left like this.

Mr. Butler

As I have said, consideration is being given to the request of the hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey). But I am not prepared to take the matter any further today.

Mr. D. Foot

Will the right hon. Gentleman specify precisely who are the parties who need to be consulted before publication and what steps he is taking to obtain their consent?

Mr. Butler

I have said that I must consider the position of the parties to the conference, which involves more than one Government, including this Government, and that I will do.

Mr. Gordon Walker

Will the right hon. Gentleman simply say whether the allegations made by Sir Roy Welensky are true or false?

Mr. Butler

I am not prepared to take the matter further than answering the Private Notice Question. If matters of faith or good faith arise, I would refer to my Answer given yesterday, which clearly shows that Britain has a right to do this, and clearly explains the reason why, in default of agreement with the Federal Government, it was impossible for Great Britain to take any other honourable action in regard to Nyasaland than the action which I took as Secretary of State.

Mr. Healey

In view of the very great public concern about these allegations, which, after all, are statements made not only by the Federal Prime Minister, but by very distinguished ex-Ministers of Her Majesty's Government in another place, can the right hon. Gentleman at least assure us that he will make a statement in the House, before we rise for the Christmas Recess, informing the House whether or not these pledges were made?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir. I am not prepared to make any further statement until I have given consideration to the request which has been made. That is bound to take a little time. It cannot be made before the House rises.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. There is a real difficulty about this, because the Minister has indicated very clearly that he will not go further today and we have no Question before the House.

Mr. G. Brown

rose—

Mr. Speaker

I will allow one more question.

Mr. Brown

May I remind the right hon. Gentleman, so that he may take it into consideration, that were he to return to the House immediately after the Recess and be unable to go further than he has gone today—the situation cannot be left as it is—he must realise that he will present us with only one course, that we should have to put down a Motion which he would have to answer?

Mr. Butler

Naturally, I accept any observation made by the right hon. Gentleman. But I cannot be pushed or rushed into the consideration which I must give to this important matter. As I have said, I am giving consideration to it, and I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will accept that statement.

Mr. J. Griffiths

May I put this for your consideration, Mr. Speaker? Documents at a conference in which representatives of Her Majesty's Government and other Governments have taken part have been quoted in a Parliament outside this country. If they were quoted in this Parliament I think that the rule would be that they would have to be laid on the Table of this House. May I take it that the rule applies to documents which affect and are associated with Her Majesty's Government, but which have been referred to in another Parliament?

Mr. Speaker

The answer to the right hon. Gentleman's question is, no. Mr. Brown. Business question.

Mr. W. Yates

I have given notice, Mr. Speaker that I wish to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House.

Mr. Speaker

Yes. I will allow the hon. Member an opportunity when we reach the right point.