HC Deb 19 December 1962 vol 669 cc1254-5
10. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will make a statement on the latest progress of the discussions on the proposed nuclear test ban.

Mr. Godber

Since my hon. Friend answered a similar Question on 12th December, there have been further meetings of the Disarmament Committee and the Nuclear Tests Sub-Committee, but, while there has been further discussion on the use of unmanned seismic stations, no further progress has been made.

Mr. Allaun

Would it not have a great effect both on America and on Russia if Britain now declared that from 1st January we would end nuclear tests, as recommended by the General Assembly? Secondly, even if there is a risk, which I concede, of some small underground test escaping detection and identification, is not that risk far less than the danger of the alternative which means continuing and intensifying the nuclear arms race?

Mr. Godber

As to the first point, there is another Question on the Order Paper, and I think that I had better wait until that comes. On the second point, the risk is still real and I think that it would be wrong to minimise it too much. I have been into this with very considerable care, and I could not advise that it would be safe to ignore this risk.

Mr. Mayhew

Is the Minister aware that, while its position on the test ban is really quite indefensible, the Soviet Union has now accepted that three black boxes can go on to Soviet territory, being taken there and taken away by international representatives? Is he aware, also, that Sir John Cockroft has stated that only a few earthquakes cannot be identified outside the country concerned? If the Russians would agree to more of these black boxes going in, would it not then be possible for the Government to accept the principle of the proposals made by the neutral countries for a test ban?

Mr. Godber

There are various aspects to this matter. It is a step forward that the Russians have accepted at least three of these black boxes. I have myself tried to ascertain from them precisely what their proposals are. For instance, if it is individual black boxes, that is one thing, but if it is arrays of black boxes in three places, that is quite another matter, and it would be a big step forward. These are all aspects of the subject. The question of siting also is extremely important.

However, with the best siting and with the best interpretation of their proposals, I am advised that there would still be a considerable number of unidentified events, and it would be wrong to believe that the introduction of black boxes would eliminate altogether the need for on-site inspection.

Sir T. Beamish

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the hon. Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) is planning to make the same sort of protests againsts the two Soviet tests in the atmosphere yesterday as he made against the smaller British test a few weeks ago?

Mr. Speaker

Whatever the Minister's duties may be, they are not to explain the intentions of the hon. Member for Salford, East.

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