§ Mr. Gordon Walker(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Defence whether he will make a statement on the recent discussions he has had with the United States Secretary for Defence on the Sky-bolt missile.
§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Macmillan)This is not the form of the Question which has been given to me.
§ Mr. Gordon WalkerMr. Speaker, it is the form which I have submitted to you. I had understood that you had approved it.
§ The Prime MinisterThe form of the Question I have received, to which I have been asked to reply in the absence of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence, is whether he would make 580 a statement on his recent talks with Mr. McNamara. What the right hon. Gentleman has just asked is much more limited, because the talks covered a great number of problems, including the Skybolt problem. I merely wanted to make it clear that the Question as stated by the right hon. Gentleman is not the one which has been handed to me. I have received notice of a more general Question, to which I will make a more general reply.
My right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence is at present in Paris for the meeting of the N.A.T.O. Council. He will wish to take an early opportunity of making a statement to the House about his talks with Mr. McNamara when he returns.
§ Mr. Gordon WalkerMay we take it for certain that we shall get a full statement on the various aspects of the discussions with Mr. McNamara, and, in particular, about the future of Sky-bolt, before the House rises? Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he now seriously expects delivery of the Skybolt missile? Can he say how long notice the Government had of the apparent change in America's policy on this matter? Now that the defence policy of the Government is in such disarray, is it not urgently necessary that the Government should think out and produce in a White Paper quite soon a new defence policy based upon the actual resources of the country and its proper and true national interest?
§ The Prime MinisterI am very glad the right hon. Gentleman has justified what I began by saying by asking such a very general form of Question. I will try to answer the different parts of it.
My right hon. Friend hopes to make a statement on his return, and that will deal with the general subjects which he discussed with Mr. McNamara.
On the particular question of Skybolt, I hope to discuss this in some detail with the President of the United States during the course of next week. As President Kennedy has stated—yesterday, I think—no decision has been made. I wish to go into all the aspects of the matter and I hope as soon as possible to make a statement accordingly.
§ Mr. Gordon WalkerMr. Speaker, may I make it quite clear that the Question that I asked was the Question that 581 you agreed that I should ask? At what point it got changed I do not know, but it was no fault of mine that it was changed.
May I press the Prime Minister on how long notice the Government have had of the probability that the United States would have to withdraw this weapon? Was it two years' notice, or no notice? How long notice did the Government have?
§ The Prime MinisterThis weapon has been under development for a period. It has run into a certain number of difficulties. The Government of the United States are considering the whole problem and I do not wish to make a statement—indeed, I do not think that it would be in the interests of the country for me to make a precise statement—until I have had the opportunity of discussing every aspect of it with President Kennedy.
§ Mr. GrimondCan the Prime Minister explain to the House how it came about that the Minister of Defence assured us, in the face of criticism, that Skybolt would certainly be produced and would be available to the Air Force? Can he explain, whatever may be the outcome of these conversations, in what sense it is an independent deterrent which depends entirely upon whether the Americans make it?
§ The Prime MinisterThe present deterrent which we have and which will be fortified by Blue Steel will last for a considerable period and must gradually be replaced by a better instrument. If the American Government decide to continue Skybolt and, according to their arrangements with us, to deliver it, it will be independent in the sense that it will be our property. The warhead will be manufactured by us and will be under our sole control.
§ Mr. ShinwellWill the Prime Minister say whether the Minister of Defence will have a perfectly free hand to make arrangements for Skybolt being provided for our defence, including its cost? Can we afford the cost which has been mentioned in the Press, amounting to many hundreds of millions of pounds? In his conversations with President Kennedy would it not be more desirable, 582 instead of adopting defence measures which are very largely speculative in the context of a deterrent, to indicate our intention to build up conventional forces?
§ The Prime MinisterThese are very great issues, much larger than could be discussed in question and answer. Our conventional forces have to be organised, as the right hon. Gentleman knows so well, to serve many rôles, and more and more today one of our problems is that the rôles all over the world have to be provided by very special forms of transport and armament. This is itself a problem, having also the rôle that we have to play in Europe. All these are very great and increasingly difficult questions as the specialisation of these types of transport, aeroplanes and armaments tends to increase. That is quite a different question from the British deterrent, which it has been the policy of succeeding Governments first to create and then to maintain, and which it is our policy to maintain, if we are able to do so.
§ Mr. SpeakerMr. Gaitskell. Business Question.
§ Mr. EdenOn a point of order. Apparently it escaped your attention, Mr. Speaker, that I was rising to ask a supplementary question. I believe that I am right in saying that all the supplementary questions were asked from the other side of the House. May I, therefore, in the circumstances, be permitted to ask a question of my right hon. Friend on his statement?
§ Mr. SpeakerI listened to what happened. I thought that we could not continue this discussion without a Question before the House. We have a lot to do and very little time to do it in. That is why I took the course that I did.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe difficulty about it is that we have to stop at some point. If I yield each time in respect of hon. Members whom I happen not to see—a distressing task and duty—we do not get on.