HC Deb 04 April 1962 vol 657 cc489-503
Sir Myer Galpern (Glasgow, Shettleston)

I beg to move, in page 9, line 27, to leave out from "State" to "pay" and to insert "shall".

The Chairman

It may be convenient to take with this Amendment the other Amendment to Clause 9, namely, that in page 9, line 45, to leave out from "State" to "pay" and to insert "shall".

Sir M. Galpern

As this rotten Bill moves with indecent swiftness through its final stages, I am coming more and more to the conclusion that its purpose is not that which the Secretary of State has so often claimed for it—the stimulating of house building in Scotland. I believe that it has a two-fold objective. The first is, by various devious devices, certainly not in keeping with the dignity with the Secretary of State or even a Tory Government, so to frame legislation that it will ultimately relieve the Government of any financial contribution to house building in Scotland. The Bill shows a determined desire so to arrange financial matters and to give the Secretary of State such power that ultimately he will be able to tell local authorities that they are to get nothing from the Government to help them with their terrible housing problems.

The other and more dangerous objective is to elevate the Secretary of State to the rôle of dictator. The offending phrase which we are seeking to delete from Clause 9, may, if he thinks fit", is the language of the bully. It is arrogant to say to people who ought to be regarded as partners, "I am the big boy and you will do as I think fit". That is not an attitude which should be adopted towards democratically elected public representatives. I do not know how new this phrase is, but it occurs too often in the Bill and a number of our Amendments have been directed towards its deletion.

Local authorities are doing their best. It is they who build the houses. Although the Government claim credit for a tremendous increase in the number of houses which have been provided, those who do the work are the very people who are insulted throughout the Bill. Our Amendment says, in effect, "Mr. Secretary of State, there are other people as interested and more interested in house building than you are, and you must deal with them in a reasonable and just fashion".

5.15 p.m.

If, as I hope, the Amendment is accepted, the Clause will read: The Secretary of State shall pay to the local authority a sum equivalent to any subsidy …". What is proposed in Clause 9 is that when a housing association or development corporation defaults in the arrangement which it has made with the local authority, the local authority will automatically be vested with the houses with which the association or corporation was concerned.

It is only natural that the local authority should take over from a defaulting housing association or development corporation. But if it falls heir to a project, it should also fall heir to the rights which go with the project, namely, the subsidy. But in subsection (2, a) the Secretary of State says that no further subsidy shall be paid, but that in certain circumstances, "if he thinks fit", he may pay to the local authority a sum equivalent to any subsidy which would have been paid.

Let us examine this provision in some detail and apply it to a given situation. Housing associations are entirely new. They are experimental. We do not know how they will develop. In that state of newness, one can expect many difficulties, and I expect a great crop of difficulties which will lead to the abandonment of people who have entered such associations with the best possible purposes only to find ultimately that they are overwhelmed by the project which has to be abandoned and left half finished. It may be completed, but if it is unfinished the local authority will be asked to take it over. The subsidy will stop and, if the Secretary of State thinks fit. he may grant the local authority the sum equivalent to the subsidy which would have been paid.

It is not reasonable to expect a local authority to carry on with a project when it is uncertain of the economic mood of the Secretary of State, on which will depend whether he will continue the subsidy or say that it is not an occasion which warrants the continuance of the subsidy. Why should a local authority be at the whim and caprice and mood of the Secretary of State at any time? That could lead to a local authority justifiably declaring that in those circumstances it would have nothing to do with a project of that kind, for it is entitled to know exactly where it stands.

If we total up all the "if he thinks fits" and all the other qualifications, we see that local authorities are to be left completely uncertain about future contributions from the Exchequer. This is deliberate policy and not something which has happened merely by chance, for the phrase "if he thinks fit" in this Clause follows the rest of the purpose of the Bill, with which the Opposition are in total disagreement.

When a local authority accepts the responsibilities, it should also have the rights which go with them. I hope that we shall not be told that this phrase is used in other Bills. We are not now dealing with what has gone before. It is too easy to wriggle out of a situation by saying that this has been done before. We are concerned with a housing situation on which very little impact has been made. The Secretary of State puts on a front by saying that he is anxious to help, but his actions seem to show that he has some other objective.

I hope that if the right hon. Gentleman accepts the Amendment he will follow it by accepting others and will categorically tell local authorities that if they take over responsibility from a housing association or development corporation he will pay them a sum equivalent to any subsidy which would have been paid, so that they are not left in this state of uncertainty.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

I do not for one moment expect that the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland will accept this Amendment, because if it were carried it would completely thwart the purpose of the Government, which is to take every possible power out of the hands of the democratically elected representatives of the people and concentrate it in the hands of the Secretary of State for Scotland or the Under-Secretary of State. In future, as regards rents, subsidies and policy, the Under-Secretary of State will be a "tinpot Hilter".

We were told during the last war that it was a war against dictatorship, but most dictators come from inside a country and not from outside. I am not sure whether, in dealing with housing, Hitler would not have been a far more democratic person than the Secretary of State for Scotland or the Under-Secretary of State. In many ways the Under-Secretary of State is like Hitler, except that he does not have his moustache.

Mr. Willis

Hitler was a house painter.

Mr. Hughes

My hon. Friend reminds me that Hitler was a painter. At least, therefore, he knew something about houses, and I am sure that if he were responsible for housing he would exercise more intelligence and discretion than we can expect from the Secretary of State or the Under-Secretary of State.

The Government are here taking powers away from the democratically elected representatives of the people concerned. The Ayrshire County Council is dominated by Socialists, but they understand the housing needs of the area and were returned to the county council by the small burghs and by the landward areas largely because they were pledged to do something to change the appalling housing situation that has existed for so long in Scotland, but which in Ayrshire at any rate has to some extent been remedied by the progressive policies of the county council and the town council.

For many years I was provost of the burgh and member of the Cumnock Town Council. We had a progressive policy, as a result of which 90 per cent. of the houses are now owned by the municipality, and we resent power being taken out of the hands of the people who were sent to the town hall and put in the hands of somebody who is remote from the area concerned.

I know that the Secretary of State for Scotland does not like Cumnock Town Council. This is because of its policy of cheap rents. I do not want to go into the history of housing development in the area, but the town council has had to fight to make Cumnock Burgh one of the best towns for housing not only in Scotland, but in the country and, indeed, in the world. We have had to fight reactionary people. The reactionary landlord who supported the Government did his best to prevent houses being built, and we had to put a compulsory purchase order on him. Again, we had to go to arbitration over the cost of the land. Here again we were successful. In fact, the arbitrator gave less to the landlord than the town council were prepared to give him.

The more these small towns have asserted their democratic rights, the more jealous the Secretary of State for Scotland has become, and now the Government propose to whittle away the authority of the town and county councils so that they can concentrate power in the hands of the bureaucracy in St. Andrew's House; a bureaucracy which is taking its cue from the Conservative hierarchy throughout Scotland.

We know what is happening in Scotland. The people in the big house see democracy encroaching on their preserves. They do not like these housing schemes. They prefer houses dominated by local landlords. But now that these houses are being built, they have said to themselves, "We will allow them to build houses under certain restrictions, but we will retain power to fix the rents and to prevent any further advance by democracy."

This Bill takes us back to the seventeenth century.

The Chairman

Order. I think that the hon. Member is going a long way from the Amendment that we are now debating.

Mr. Hughes

It is a long way back to the seventeenth century, but the Minister is—

The Chairman

Order. That is what I am complaining about.

Mr. Hughes

That is precisely what I, too, am complaining about. However, Sir William, I am glad to see that we are not at cross-purposes.

I want to see the Bill so amended that powers will not be taken away from local authorities; that powers will not be put in the hands of a "tinpot Hitler" or a "tinpot Stalin", but that the local authorities will have power to administer housing in the way they have done up to now and as a result of which they have made such good progress.

Mr. Brewis

May I call the attention of the hon. Gentleman to the fact that the same words occur in the 1950 Act? Section 87 (2, b), says: the Secretary of State may, if he thinks fit … Why is it that in those days the hon. Gentleman did not say that the Secretary of State for Scotland was a "tinpot dictator" or a "tinpot Molotov"?

Mr. Hughes

If the hon. Gentleman had been here at the time he would know that I said a good many things then that I am saying now. One can use the same form of words to create bigger powers in a different way in a different setting and in a different Clause. The hon. Gentleman is an adolescent in these matters. As regards housing, he has not cut his wisdom teeth.

I hope that these Amendments will not be resisted and that the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland will say that he does not propose to usurp the powers of the people who are sent to the organs of local authority to represent ordinary people.

Mr. Ross

I hope that the hon. Member for Galloway (Mr. Brewis) appreciates that we are serious about this Amendment. Apart from the fact that he took us back to 1950, he must appreciate that we are clear here dealing with something that is being enacted for the first time. We are dealing not only with authorised arrangements made between a local authority and housing association corporations, but between the Secretary of State for Scotland and the corporations. What may have been applicable in 1950 is not entirely relevant now.

Apart from that, there is now a different attitude to housing from what there was in 1950, because until 1957 the Government were prepared to meet rising costs and rising interest rates by increased subsidies. We then entered a new housing era in Scotland.

This is a very narrow point. The Clause deals with authorised arrangements which have been made between a local authority and a housing association or corporation. The words "authorised arrangements" lead one to ask who authorised them? That person is the Secretary of State. The other arrangements are those made between the Secretary of State directly with the corporations or housing associations, so once again the Secretary of State authorises.

5.30 p.m.

We start with that, and then assume that these authorised arrangements have broken down and that the housing association or the corporation is in default. By virtue of the terms of the authorised arrangement the houses become vested in the local authority. This is where the grouse comes. If nothing had happened in relation to the authorised arrangements made between the local authority and the housing association a subsidy would have been payable, and would have continued to be payable not directly to the housing association but to the local authority, which would then pass it on to the housing association.

If, in these default circumstances, the house is vested with the local authority, why on earth, in this day and age—never mind what happened at any other time, or what words were included at any other time—should the Secretary of State take unto himself a discretionary power? Why should he decide to pay this to the local authority "if he thinks fit"? To me, those are rather insulting words. Before the question of default is mentioned in the Clause there is no mention of the Secretary of State's changing the subsidy payable to a local authority, to be passed on to a housing association "if he thinks fit". At the beginning of the Clause it is provided that the Secretary of State shall do so if he thinks that it is just. But the question of justice does not arise; it is purely a question of arrogance. It is purely and simply befuddled, bureaucratic arrogance.

If the Under-Secretary thinks that it is essential to retain these words, will he explain what the rest of the subsection means? It reads: the Secretary of State may, if he thinks fit, pay to the local authority a sum equivalent to any subsidy "— and then come the words to which I wish to draw attention, and which to my mind construct a barrier of injustice— which would, after the said time, have become payable to them under this Part of this Act in respect of the house if all conditions precedent to the payment of the subsidy had been at all material times observed", that is to say, if conditons were such that the question of default had never arisen.

If the question of default had never arisen the subsidy would have been payable. It would have been mandatory to pay it. All that we suggest is that if those conditions apply there is no justice in giving the Secretary of State power to withhold payment "if he thinks fit". I hope that my hon. Friends will support the Amendment.

Mr. Galbraith

The hon. Member for Glasgow, Shettleston (Sir M. Galpern) began by discussing the whole purpose of the Bill. It would be better if we left that aspect of his speech until the Third Reading. The effect of the Amendment would be to delete the words may, if he thinks fit and replace them by the one word "shall". This would make it obligatory upon the Secretary of State to pay to a local authority, when a housing association because became vested in it, a sum equivalent to the subsidy which would have been payable in respect of the house if it had remained in the ownership of the association.

Subsection (2), in effect, empowers the transfer of a subsidy from a housing association to a local authority when a house built by the association, with the aid of a subsidy, under authorised arrangements, becomes vested in the local authority. Subsection (4) applies the same provision to special arrangements. The principle behind these provisions is in no sense new. It is merely a continuation of the power contained in Section 87 of the 1950 Act. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Shettleston need not wave his hand; I am coming to his argument in a moment. The 1950 Act made the transfer of a subsidy subject to the discretion of the Secretary of State in the same way as is now proposed. There is nothing new in this power.

Mr. Dempsey

Tell me the old. old story.

Mr. Manuel

There is nothing new, except for the Secretary of State.

Mr. Galbraith

The Secretary of State is new; but he has been going for longer than any other Secretary of State.

I may say that the provision contained in the 1950 Act, including the permissive power, had its origin in Section 11 (1) of the 1946 Housing Act, which was enacted by a Labour Administration.

Mr. Willis

We were not here then.

Mr. Galbraith

The hon. Member may not have been here, but some of his hon. Friends were here. I cannot understand why hon. Members opposite find this power objectionable now, when it has been in operation for so long.

Sir M. Galpern

The reason that we find it so objectionable is that the whole purpose of this Bill is diametrically opposed to that of the one referred to.

Mr. Galbraith

The hon. Member said that the words he seeks to delete are arrogant, and were words such as would issue from the mouth of a bully. All I can say is that they have been issuing from the mouths of hon. Members opposite, and that if we on this side are guilty of being bullies they are equally guilty. Theirs is an utterly nonsensical argument.

Let me explain the position. There may be an element of misunderstanding; I hope that there is. In the normal course of events no subsidy is payable to a local authority for houses which it acquires by purchase. An exception is made when a housing association house becomes vested in the local authority. The reason for that exception is that housing association houses are themselves subsidised, and the association providing subsidised houses is, in effect, thus supplementing the building programme of the local authority. Accordingly, the Bill proposes to continue the provisions of previous Acts, whereby, when such a house is sold or otherwise passes to the local authority, the subsidy may continue to be paid to the local authority and shall be retained by it instead of being handed to the association.

I can assure the hon. Member that where a housing association house becomes vested in a local authority a payment to that authority, in lieu of subsidy, is likely to be made in virtually every case. In our opinion, however, it would be wrong to make it obligatory, as the Amendment seeks to do, for the Secretary of State to make a payment irrespective of the circumstances of the takeover or the purposes for which the local authority intended to use the house. We appear to differ only on that very small point.

It is conceivable that upon acquiring a house from a housing association a local authority would intend to use it to accommodate members of its own staff, or for some other purpose for which, as the hon. Member will appreciate, a subsidy is not payable. Surely he is not contending that in those circumstances a subsidy should be paid. It is only

logical, therefore, that before agreeing to the payment of a housing subsidy in respect of such a house the Secretary of State should have a similar discretion to that which he has in relation to new local authority houses, and should be able to decide whether a payment in lieu of subsidy should be made. This is really a very narrow point. The decision of the Government is reasonable, and I hope that for once the Opposition will try to understand why we have included these words. I understand why they do not like them, but the purpose is to give a discretion to the Secretary of State so that he shall not be obliged in every case—in some of which it might be improper to do so—to continue the payment of subsidy.

For these reasons, I regret that I cannot accept the Amendment.

Question put, That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause:—

The Committee divided: Ayes 219, Noes 174.

Division No. 147.] AYES [5.41 p.m.
Agnew, Sir Peter Curran, Charles Henderson, John (Cathcart)
Aitken, W. T. Dalkeith, Earl of Hendry, Forbes
Allason, James d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry Hill, Mrs. Eveline (Wythenshawe)
Arbuthnot, John do Ferranti, Basil Hill, J. E. B. (S. Norfolk)
Ashton, Sir Hubert Digby, Simon Wingfield Holland, Philip
Atkins, Humphrey Donaldson, Cmdr. C. E. M. Hollingworth, John
Balniel, Lord Doughty, Charles Hopkins, Alan
Barber, Anthony Drayson, G. B. Hornby, R. P.
Barlow, Sir John du Cann, Edward Hornsby-Smith, Rt. Hon. Dame P.
Barter, John Duncan, Sir James Howard, John (Southampton, Test)
Batsford, Brian Eden, John Hughes Hallett, Vice-Admiral John
Bell, Ronald Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) Hughes-Young, Michael
Berkeley, Humphry Elliott, R. W. (Nwcastle-upon-Tyne, N.) Hurd, Sir Anthony
Bevins, Rt. Hon. Reginald Emery, Peter Hutchison, Michael Clark
Bitten, John Emmet, Hon. Mrs. Evelyn Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye)
Biggs-Davison, John Errington, Sir Eric James, David
Birch, Rt. Hon. Nigel Erroll, Rt. Hon. F. J. Jennings, J. C.
Bishop, F. P. Farr, John Johnson, Eric (Blackley)
Black, Sir Cyril Finlay, Graeme Kerby, Capt. Henry
Bossom, Clive Fisher, Nigel Kerr, Sir Hamilton
Bourne-Arton, A. Fletcher-Cooke, Charles Kershaw, Anthony
Box, Donald Foster, John Kimball, Marcus
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hon. J. Fraser, Ian (Plymouth, Sutton) Langford-Holt, Sir John
Brewis, John Freeth, Denzil Leavey, J. A.
Brooman-White, R. Gammans, Lady Leburn, Gilmour
Brown, Alan (Tottenham) George J. C. (Pollok) Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland)
Browne, Percy (Torrington) Gilmour, Sir John Lindsay, Sir Martin
Billiard, Denys Glover, Sir Douglas Linstead, Sir Hugh
Butler, Rt. Hn. R. A. (Saffron Walden) Glyn, Dr. Alan (Clapham) Litchfield, Capt. John
Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) Glyn, Sir Richard (Dorset, N.) Longbottom, Charles
Carr, Robert (Mitcham) Goodhart, Philip Longden, Gilbert
Cary, Sir Robert Goodhew, Victor Loveys, Walter H.
Channon, H. P. G. Gower, Raymond Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh
Chichester-Clark, R. Grant-Ferris, Wg. Cdr. R. McLaughlin, Mrs. Patricia
Clark, William (Nottingham, S.) Green, Alan Maclean, SirFitzroy (Bute&N. Ayrs.)
Cleaver, Leonard Gresham Cooke, R. McLean, Neil (Inverness)
Collard, Richard Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N. W.) Macleod, Rt. Hn. Iain (Enfield, W.)
Cooper, A. E. Harris, Reader (Heston) MacLeod, John (Ross & Cromarty)
Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere (Macclesf'd) McMaster, Stanley R.
Corfield, F. V. Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) Macpherson, Niall (Dumfries)
Costain, A. P. Hastings, Stephen Maddan, Martin
Coulson, Michael Hay, John Maginnis, John E.
Courtney, Cdr. Anthony Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel Maitland, Sir John
Craddock, Sir Beresford Heath, Rt. Hon. Edward Marshall, Douglas
Matthews, Gordon (Meriden) Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury)
Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Roes, Hugh Thomas, Peter (Conway)
Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. Rees-Davies, W. R. Thompson, Kenneth (Walton)
Mills, Stratton Renton, David Thompson, Richard (Croydon, S.)
Miscampbell, N. Ridley, Hon. Nicholas Thornton-Kemsley, Sir Colin
Montgomery, Fergus Ridsdale, Julian Tilney, John (Wavertree)
More, Jasper (Ludlow) Robertson, Sir D. (C'thn's & S'th'ld) Touche, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon
Morrison, John Robinson, Rt. Hn. Sir R. (B'pool, S.) Turner, Colin
Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles Ropner, Col. Sir Leonard Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H.
Nabarro, Gerald Royle, Anthony (Richmond, Surrey) van Straubenzee, W. R.
Neave, Airey Russell, Ronald Vaughan-Morgan, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Noble, Michael Scott-Hopkins, James Vosper, Rt. Hon. Dennis
Oakshott, Sir Hendrie Seymour, Leslie Wakefield, Sir Wavell (St. M'lebone)
Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Shaw, M. Walder, David
Orr-Ewing, C. Ian Skeet, T. H. H. Wall, Patrick
Osborn, John (Hallam) Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'd & Chiswick) Ward, Dame Irene
Page, Graham (Crosby) Smithers, Peter Watkinson, Rt. Hon. Harold
Page, John (Harrow, West) Smyth, Brig. Sir John (Norwood) Wells, John (Maidstone)
Pannell, Norman (Kirkdale) Spearman, Sir Alexander Williams, Dudley (Exeter)
Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe) Speir, Rupert Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
Peel, John Stanley, Hon. Richard Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater)
Perclval, Ian Stodart, J. A, Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Peyton, John Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir Malcolm Wise, A. R.
Pott, Percivall Studholme, Sir Henry Wood, Rt. Hon. Richard
Powell, Rt. Hon, J. Enoch Summers, Sir Spencer (Aylesbury) Woodnutt, Mark
Prior-Palmer, Brig. Sir Otho Talbot, John E. Woollam, John
Pym, Francis Tapsell, Peter Worsley, Marcus
Quennell, Miss J. M. Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Ramsden, James Teeling, Sir William TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Rawlinson, Peter Temple, John M. Mr. Whitelaw and
Mr. Michael Hamilton.
Abse, Leo Hall, Rt. Hn. Glenvil (Colne Valley) Mitchison, G. R.
Albu, Austen Hamilton, William (West Fife) Monslow, Walter
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Hannan, William Moyle, Arthur
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) Harper, Joseph Neal, Harold
Awbery, Stan Hart, Mrs. Judith Noel-Baker, Rt. Hn. Philip (Derby, S.)
Bacon, Miss Alice Hayman, F. H. Oliver, G. H.
Baxter, William (Stirlingshire, W.) Healey, Denis Oram, A. E.
Beaney, Alan Henderson, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Rwly Regis) Oswald, Thomas
Benson, Sir George Herbison, Miss Margaret Owen, Will
Blackburn, F, Hill, J. (Midlothian) Padley, W. E.
Blyton, William Holman, Percy Pannell, Charles (Leeds, W.)
Bowden, Rt. Hn. H. W. (Leics. S. W.) Holt, Arthur Pargiter, G. A.
Boyden, James Houghton, Douglas Parker, John
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Hoy, James H. Pavitt, Laurence
Brockway, A. Fenner Hughes, Cledwyn (Anglesey) Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd)
Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Belper) Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) Peart, Frederick
Callaghan, James Hunter, A. E. Pentland, Norman
Castle, Mrs. Barbara Hynd, H. (Accrington) Popplewell, Ernest
Chapman, Donald Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill) Prentice, R. E.
Cliffe, Michael Irving, Sydney (Dartford) Price, J. T. (Westhoughton)
Corbet, Mrs. Freda Janner, Sir Barnett Probert, Arthur
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Jay, Rt. Hon. Douglas Pursey, Cmdr. Harry
Cronin, John Jenkins, Roy (Stechford) Randall, Harry
Cullen, Mrs. Alice Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Rankin, John
Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Jones, Dan (Burnley) Reld, William
Davies, Ifor (Gower) Jones, Elwyn (West Ham, S.) Reynolds, G. W.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) Rhodes, H.
Deer, George Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Roberts, Albert (Normanton)
Dempsey, James Kelley, Richard Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Diamond, John Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. Robertson, John (Paisley)
Dodds, Norman King, Dr. Horace Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.)
Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John Lawson, George Rogers, G. H. R. (Kensington, N.)
Ede, Rt. Hon. C. Lee, Frederick (Newton) Ross, William
Edelman, Maurice Lee, Miss Jennie (Cannock) Short, Edward
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Loughlin, Charles Silverman, Julius (Aston)
Edwards, Walter (Stepney) Lubbock, Eric Silverman, Sydney (Nelson)
Evans, Albert Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.)
Fernyhough, E. McInnes, James Slater, Joseph (Sedgefield)
Finch, Harold McKay, John (Wallsend) Small, William
Fletcher, Eric Mackie, John (Enfield, East) Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) McLeavy, Frank Snow, Julian
Forman, J. C. MacMillan, Malcolm (Western Isles) Sorensen, R. W.
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. Hugh Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Spriggs, Leslie
Galpern, Sir Myer Manuel, Archie Steele, Thomas
Ginsburg, David Mapp, Charles Stewart, Michael (Fulham)
Gooch, E. G. Marsh, Richard Stones, William
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. Mason, Roy Strachey, Rt. Hon. John
Gourlay, Harry Mendelson, J. J. Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R. (Vauxhall)
Grey, Charles Millan, Bruce Swain, Thomas
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Milne, Edward Taverne, D.
Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield) Warbey, William Willis, E. G. (Edinburgh, E.)
Thomas, George (Cardiff, W.) Weitzman, David Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Thomas, lorwerth (Rhondda, W.) Wells, Percy (Faversham) Winter-bottom, R. E.
Thompson, Dr. Alan (Dunfermline) Whitlock, William Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A.
Thomson, G. M. (Dundee, E.) Willey, Frederick Yates, Victor (Ladywood)
Thorpe, Jeremy Williams, D. J. (Neath)
Timmons, John Williams, LI. (Abertillery) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Wainwright, Edwin Williams, W. R. (Openshaw) Mr. Redhead and Dr. Broughton.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.