New Clause.—(EXPENSES.) (Hansard, 2 April 1962)

§ Mr. Maudling
I beg to move. That the Clause be read a Second time.
In a sense, this Clause is consequential on the other new Clause in that it provides that should I use the powers given to me by the preceding Clause to make grants the money shall be found by the normal methods. I hope that the Committee will approve that proposal.

§ Mr. Maudling
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I do not think that there is anything substantial which I can add to what I said on Second Reading. In a sense, this is a sad Bill, because it is the end of an experiment in government which we all wished well. But I think, and observations have shown, that this is the only practical course which we can now take. Upon this foundation I hope that we can build substantial progress for the peoples of the West Indies.

§ Mr. Healey
As the Colonial Secretary has said, the Bill has always been unwelcome on both sides of the House, but we recognise it as inevitable and we recognise the necessity for its rapid passage, although many of us have felt that it was drafted a good deal more hastily than it should have been.
I must confess that now that we have considered it carefully in Committee for half a day, I have found that the drafting has been sometimes clumsy, often obscure, and always more harsh and negative than it need have been. I regret that the Government have not found it possible to accept any of our Amendments, although I welcome the many assurances which have been given in lieu of acceptance of Amendments by the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friend.
I regret that the Government have not at any stage given us any clear idea of their own ideas about the future. I recognise, as everybody must, that the prime consideration in this respect must 169 be the wishes of the people living in the territories concerned. I cannot help feeling that a slightly more positive lead from this country would have been accepted and desirable in the smaller islands.
I echo the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, East (Mr. G. M. Thomson), that whether or not it is decided that the small islands should form a federation, the Government and the House as a whole should recognise this country's historic obligations to the Caribbean. We accept the Bill as a regrettable necessity and for that reason we shall not oppose it.

§ Mr. Chapman
Like all other hon. Members, I have accepted the Bill with sorrow. The need now is to look to the future. The one lesson that we have to send to the West Indies is that no matter how much we may try here to get agreement on future forms of government in the Caribbean, what really matters must be done out there. That is to get a feeling that everyone in the West Indies, or at least most people, has a stake in whatever new kind of Government is created.
This is the failure we have uncovered in our experiences of the last few years. We have tried there a federation in which 170 no one was vitally interested. We never got them to that point. The main lesson we have to send out to the Eight is that if they want a federation to be arranged under the Clauses of this Bill let them by all means put it up in the first place to Her Majesty's Government, but let them also try to get popular interest and enthusiasm for it in their own islands. That would be the surest way of seeing ahead and ensuring that it would not founder as the present Federation is now doing.
Here there was an area ripe for a big federation. We have lost that opportunity for the time being and we have to go back to something smaller. This time let us have it on the firm foundations of consent and enthusiasm among the actual participants. That is the big message we should send which will avoid failure when we try again, as I hope we shall in the very near future.