§ 37. Mr. Houghtonasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he will place in the Library a copy of the instructions issued to officers of the National Assistance Board in relation to the granting of discretionary allowances.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterNo, Sir, for the reasons authoritatively stated by the late 26 Mr. Ernest Bevin on 9th December, 1943.
§ Mr. HoughtonAs the right hon. Gentleman is aware, the late Mr. Ernest Bevin has been dead for a long time and conditions are very different now. Is not he aware that he recently told the House that it was no longer possible to consider the scale rates in isolation in view of the large number of discretionary payments? Cannot we therefore know on what basis these are given?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterNo, Sir. If he studies what the late Mr. Bevin said, he will appreciate the good sense of a clear statement that
the Government cannot be a party to having all the instructions and Regulations of its Departments issued in this way … If we do not interpret the Act aright, the House can challenge us. .."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 9th December, 1943; Vol. 395, c, 1243.]That seems to be a very proper statement. As for discretionary payments, I am always willing to tell the House how many have been made, and I am glad to be able to tell it now that the number made in 1961, in supplementation of weekly payments, was 938,000, 24,000 more than in 1960.
§ Mr. HoughtonAs an alternative to the laying of instructions, can the Minister give a summary, for the benefit of hon. Members, of the way in which the scheme works? That would surely help.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterAs the hon. Members knows, we have often had an opportunity of discussing this matter in this House and upstairs. I am always willing, on those occasions, to give a full description. I very much doubt whether a written summary will be at all helpful.