NATIONALISED INDUSTRIES (Hansard, 28 November 1961)

§ Q8. Dame Irene Ward
asked the Prime Minister whether he will enter into discussions with the Departmental Ministers and the chairmen of nationalised boards about the policy of Her Majesty's Government regarding allocation of profits made by nationalised industries, having regard to the rights of consumers, workers and capital development.

§ The Prime Minister
I see no necessity for any such discussions.

§ Dame Irene Ward
Can my right hon. Friend make a declaration now that, when there is a profit in the nationalised industries, it would be in the interests of 238 the community if there were some reduction in the prices of their commodities to the consumer? Would not this have a good effect not only on our export trade but on those in this country who are looking for a reduction of prices rather than ever-increasing increases?

§ The Prime Minister
No. Sir. It is rather like the old adage—first make your profit and then divide it up.

§ Dame Irene Ward
But the electricity industry has made a profit.

Hon. Members
Hear, Hear.

§ The Prime Minister
It has, but in the electricity industry the surplus is required, under the Act, to be paid to the Exchequer—which has had to provide the capital—to pay interest and to finance future capital development.

§ Dame Irene Ward
In that case, why is it going in increased wages?

§ The Prime Minister
I think that we should be fair to the management of the industry. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Very large sums have been invested in capital by Government loans, not all out of the profits of the industry. [HON. MEMBERS: "Most of it."] A great deal from the profits, but some by Government loans, as the Act lays down. The average price of electricity to the consumer is 25 per cent. more than it was ten years ago, and in relation to the general average of retail prices that is not a large rise.

§ Q9. Mr. Pentland
asked the Prime Minister what recent request he has received from the respective chairmen of the nationalised industries to have consultations with Her Majesty's Government about the future working of their industries.

§ The Prime Minister
No such request would be necessary. Regular consultations take place in the normal course of business between the chairmen of nationalised industries and the appropriate Ministers.

§ Mr. Pentland
Bearing in mind the right hon. Gentleman's statement last Tuesday on the Electricity Council's wage award, will he give us a firm assurance that he will not issue a general 239 directive to any chairman of a nationalised industry to comply with the Government's pay pause policy when it has a wage claim under consideration?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes, Sir. I will willingly give that assurance, because I understand that it would be illegal for the Government to give such a directive.

§ Mr. Grimond
While it may or may not be illegal for the Government to do so, should not the Prime Minister be a little more specific about what he expects the nationalised industries to do? If he is not prepared to give them a general direction in the national interest, would he not say that there must be some latitude in the interpretation of the pay pause to allow at least some increase in wages, possibly within some limit, rather than trying to enforce a standstill which he admits to be unenforceable and which may do great damage to the industrial relations of the country?

§ The Prime Minister
No, Sir. I said last week that the Government did not regard the settlement as being consistent with the policy of the pay pause. That is a fact and I repeat it.

§ Mr. Nabarro
While in certain quarters it may be considered illegal for the Government to give a general direction in the instance of a specific wage claim, would not the Prime Minister agree that within the existing Statutes it must be a possibility that the appropriate Ministers can give a general direction to the heads of State boards to require that their general economic and financial policy is in consonance with that of the Government, including wage restraint?

§ The Prime Minister
That is another question. I was answering the supplementary question which was put to me and to which I gave an accurate reply.