HC Deb 31 May 1961 vol 641 cc237-8
23. Mr. Marsh

asked the Secretary of State for War on what date the last Vickers machine-gun will be withdrawn from service.

Mr. Ramsden

From the Regular Army by 1965. It will remain in use with the Territorial Army for some time longer.

Mr. Marsh

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that this is an extremely serious statement to make? Would he not agree that with the enormous emphasis on nuclear weapons we should not lose sight of the need to equip the British Army with modern conventional weapons?

Mr. Ramsden

Re-equipment with a major new weapon is necessarily a slow process. The Vickers is an extremely good gun which has given excellent service. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] We cannot replace all the Army's equipment at once, and we have waited until we have a successor which we believe will be equally successful.

Mr. Mayhew

While I agree that the Vickers machine-gun has given excellent service over very many wars, can we be told on what date it was first introduced into the British Army?

Mr. Ramsden

The hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Grimond), I think, gave the House this information a short while ago in connection with his personal experience, but I am afraid that I cannot recall what he said.

Mr. Grimond

I protest; I am not a centenarian. The Vickers gun is only just younger than the Maxim gun which dates from 1860. It is true to say that when I joined the Army in 1939 I was assured, in almost the exact terms which the hon. Gentleman has used, that this excellent weapon—which seems to be so attractive to hon. Gentlemen opposite, though I feel that they have never stripped it in their lives or lost as much blood as I have in the process—would soon be replaced in the modern Army.

Sir H. Legge-Bourke

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that many of us who have considerable experience in the use of, and training in the use of, this gun deeply regret its passing and feel that the longer it is retained, the better?

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