State House, Holborn (Hansard, 30 May 1961)

§ 1. Mr. M. Stewart
asked the Minister of Works what will be the cost to his Department of the lease of State House, Holborn; and what efforts were made, before this lease was taken, to find accommodation farther from the centre of London.

§ The Minister of Works (Lord John Hope)
It is not my policy to publish details of commercial transactions such as leases. My Department has recently taken the leases of several office buildings outside the central London area, but the principal Departments which are to occupy State House, Holborn, could not have been accommodated further from the centre without serious loss of efficiency.

§ Mr. Stewart
Does not the right hon. Gentleman think, in view of the general concern about congestion in London, that further consideration ought to have been given to a Ministry not adding to it? In these circumstances, are we not entitled to know how much the Ministry is going to pay?

§ Lord John Hope
No, Sir. I do not think that the hon. Gentleman's first point has anything to do with knowing about the price. The answer to his main contention is that one must take into account the efficiency factor, and we were satisfied in this case that the D.S.I.R., which is one of the main occupants, would lose efficiency if it were not in this part of central London.

§ Mr. G. M. Thomson
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the Government have built around London a number of new towns as part of the Government's programme for dispersing population and that these new towns are very anxious to have Government office accommodation? Does it not make nonsense of the Government's policy in planning the dispersal of population not 3 to encourage Government Departments to go to the new towns instead of congesting the centre of London?

§ Lord John Hope
Where Government Departments are to go out, which in many cases is thoroughly desirable, it means that there would be no loss in the efficient working of the Departments, but clearly it would be against the public interest if one dispersed when concentration led to greater efficiency.

§ Mr. Stewart
The Minister says that it is not his policy to give prices of this kind, but if the Public Accounts Committee were to ask him he would have to provide the information, would he not?

§ Lord John Hope
All I know is that if I am asked by the hon. Gentleman I must say what the policy is. I am sure that it would be highly undesirable and would prejudice the public interest if the details of commercial transactions such as this were divulged. It would put both parties to such a transaction at a hopeless disadvantage. We could not do as well for the public in the market as we can under present conditions.

§ 3. Mr. Driberg
asked the Minister of Works what steps he proposes to take, in consultation with the other Departments concerned, to stagger working hours of officials at State House so that the movement of those employed there will not increase unduly the rush-hour congestion at Holborn station.

§ Lord John Hope
The Department of Scientific and Industrial Research will be the major occupant of State House. I understand it will be discussing with other occupying Departments arrangements for securing a reasonable staggering of the times of arrival and departure of all staff to be accommodated in this building. I understand also that the hours of attendance of staff in the headquarters of the Department are already staggered.

§ Mr. Woodburn
What reason has the D.S.I.R. for being in the centre of London? Of all the administrative bodies, surely this is the one which could be most easily dispersed and which it is desirable to disperse?

§ Lord John Hope
I tried to answer that point on the supplementary questions 4 which were put to me on the last Question. This Question concerns the staggering of hours.