HC Deb 30 March 1961 vol 637 cc1512-4
30. Mr. Fletcher

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has now considered the representations made to him with regard to the methods of obtaining and using confessions made in a police station; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. R. A. Butler

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Epsom (Mr. Rawlinson) on 16th March last.

Mr. Fletcher

Is the Home Secretary aware that that reply was regarded as rather unsatisfactory in certain quarters? Is he aware that it indicated that the matter is being considered by the judges but has been withdrawn from the purview of the Royal Commission on the Police? Does not the Home Secretary realise that there is considerable public concern about this. While it may be appropriate that judges should consider matters relating to the rules of evidence, on the other hand the whole question of the circumstances in which confessions are obtained in police stations is a matter relating to police administration, and, I should have thought, essentially a matter which the present Royal Commission on the Police should investigate? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a number of representations have been made? Will the right hon. Gentleman please explain why the Commission is not being allowed to make an investigation?

Mr. Butler

Yes, Sir. Great trouble was taken before this decision was reached. I met the Chairman of the Royal Commission and the Lord Chief Justice and we came to the conclusion, with the agreement of the Chairman of the Commission, that it was a matter more suitable for the judges to examine. The Chairman of the Royal Commission has agreed to make available for the purposes of this review any material that is relevant which comes or has come to the Commission. This will be made available to the judges appointed by the Lord Chief Justice to make a thorough review of this matter. I believe that this review has been rather better received than the hon. Gentleman has intimated, and I believe that it would be the most thorough way of doing it.

Mr. Gordon Walker

Can the right hon Gentleman assure us that it will be within the purview of one or other of the bodies to look at the practice of the police to detain men without making a charge against them, which would seem, on the face of it, to be in contravention of our ideas about habeas corpus? Is he aware that if this matter were to fall between the two stools, something would be lost which ought to be retained, and that the situation is causing concern?

Mr. Butler

I have not had notice of that question. This investigation will cover the question of the interrogation of persons. The judges have given me an assurance that they will look into the question of interrogation before a man is accused——

Mr. Gordon Walker

Before he is charged?

Mr. Butler

—yes, before he is charged. That is to be looked at, and so it means that this investigation is really more important than would appear at first sight.

Mr. Fletcher

We all agree that this inquiry is very important, but can the right hon. Gentleman assure us that the result will be made public, in the same way as would the result of an inquiry by a Royal Commission; and that people who wish to give evidence and make representations to the judges will have the same facilities far doing so as they would have if the investigation were conducted by the Royal Commission?

Mr. Butler

I shall be glad to get in touch with the Lord Chief Justice on the point which the hon. Gentleman has raised relating to submissions, so that we can be sure that if they wish to be made there is a quarter where they can be received. I will certainly do that and I think that is the main answer to the supplementary questions asked by the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Fletcher

The other question was whether the result will be made public.

Mr. Butler

I shall have to consult the Lord Chief Justice. This is a matter for the judges. The Rules are known today and, presumably, when any alterations are made, they will be made known.