HC Deb 29 March 1961 vol 637 cc1322-3
23. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Transport how many enforcement officers are engaged in checking that firms are not causing their drivers to work for illegal and excessive hours.

Mr. Marples

The number of officers engaged on enforcement work of this kind varies to some extent from week to week. During the week ended 18th March, 1961, the number was 165.

Mr. Allaun

Is not this entirely inadequate, since commercial vehicles have increased from 900,000 to 1,400,000 in ten years? If the Minister were there at the time, he could see drivers who have been working for eighteen hours nodding at the wheel or falling asleep Over their teacups in transport caf⃩s. Instead of checking the log books, which can be "cooked", would it not be better for enforcement officers to take the numbers of vehicles at key points on main roads?

Mr. Marples

The answer to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is that enforcement officers already do that. As to the first part of the supplementary question, although traffic has increased the number of enforcement officers has increased at an even greater rate. In March, 1959, there were 103. In March, 1960, there were 147. In March, 1961, there are 165, which is a 50 per cent. increase in two years.

Mrs. Slater

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that something very much more drastic is needed to safeguard the people who have to work these excessive hours? Does he not also agree that in spite of the enforcement officers, the fines which are imposed are absolutely negligible and encourage the owners of lorries to go on with this illegal practice?

Mr. Marples

Fines are not a question for me, and therefore I will not comment on them. We have increased the staff to a considerable extent and it is certainly making a greater impact on this sort of case than it was two years ago.

Mr. Mellish

Does not this evidence of a further increase on the numbers of prosecutions that the right hon. Gentleman gave last week show that the situation is becoming alarming? What are the Minister's long-term plans for coping with it?

Mr. Marples

At a recent meeting, representations were made, which I promised to consider.

24. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Transport what was the outcome of his talks with the lorry drivers' union representatives on the excessive hours worked by some haulage firms.

Mr. Marples

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Mrs. Slater) on 22nd March.

Mr. Allaun

Does not the Minister think that the cut sought by the men from eleven hours to ten hours a day is a modest one? Is he aware that ten hours is the maximum period on the Continent and in the United States, and does he not agree that it is quite long enough for a man, for safety's sake, to be in charge of a heavy lorry?

Mr. Marples

When I saw the trade union representatives they made certain points. I promised further investigation of two or three of those points, after which I promised to give the matter serious consideration.