HC Deb 21 March 1961 vol 637 cc198-200
35. Mr. Rankin

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to avert the impending strike among teachers.

Mr. Brooman-White

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave, on 16th March, to the hon. Members for Fife, East (Sir J. Henderson-Stewart) and Glasgow, Shettleston (Sir M. Galpern).

Mr. Rankin

Noting that reply, may I ask if the hon. Gentleman is aware that, in addition to the fear of dilution, there is also discontent in the teaching profession about the long time that negotiations take today in reaching salary conclusions, and that, when the decision is finally arrived at, because of the delay, the result is often a loss to the teachers? Would he not consider, for example, the appointment of an impartial tribunal which would come to a speedier conclusion when the employers and employees differ as to the scales of salaries?

Mr. Brooman-White

All I can say at present is that current negotiations do not seem to be progressing at a very different tempo from that of previous negotiations.

Mr. T. Fraser

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is not only discontent among teachers, but very great concern throughout Scotland, at the possibility of a complete breakdown in our education? Will not the hon. Gentleman prod his right hon. Friend into taking some action to avert this disaster?

Mr. Brooman-White

I do not think I should say anything to prejudice in any way the considerations which at present are being given to the problem by the National Joint Council.

Mr. Rankin

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that the teachers' salary submissions were made in the beginning of this year, that no progress has yet been made and that we are now nearly at the end of March? Is that speed?

Hon. Members

Answer.

38. Sir M. Galpern

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many retired teachers are presently employed in primary schools and in secondary schools in Scotland, respectively.

Mr. Brooman-White

Seven hundred and sixteen retired teachers were in employment during the quarter ending 31st December, 1960. I regret that it is not possible to say how many of them were in primary and how many in secondary schools.

Sir M. Galpern

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that these figures represent a very small percentage indeed of the total number of retired teachers available for service? In a situation of crisis, in which we find a shortage of teachers in Scotland of no less than 3,800, or 8.2 per cent. of the total number of teachers employed, ought not every incentive to be offered to these people to return to the schools?

Mr. Brooman-White

The hon. Member will be aware of the efforts we have been making to try to get an increased number to go back to help to meet the present emergency.

39. Sir M. Galpern

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in view of the crisis in Scottish education brought about by the shortage of teachers, he is now prepared to accept recommendations 5 and 6, concerning full pay and full pensions, contained in the Knox Committee's Report on measures to improve the supply of teachers in Scotland of 31st December, 1958.

Mr. Brooman-White

Very full and careful consideration has been given to this recommendation, but I regret that the Government are unable to accept it.

Sir M. Galpern

May I ask the Joint Under-Secretary if he is aware of the fact that here we have one of the positive recommendations made by the Knox Committee set up by his right hon. Friend to inquire into the shortage and supply of teachers in Scotland, and that, on two occasions, the Knox Committee made a recommendation that in this period of staffing crisis, full pay and full pension ought to be granted under certain conditions to teachers who are prepared to return to teaching? Is he aware that if any principle is involved, the Government themselves departed from the fundamental principle when there was a shortage of police during the war when, in order to augment their number, they granted full pay and pension rights?

Mr. Brooman-White

Yes, but the decision we have made is in line with the principle generally applicable to public servants, and it has been maintained by successive Governments for a great number of years.

Sir M. Galpern

Except during the war.