HC Deb 21 March 1961 vol 637 cc189-91
18. Mr. Hale

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the estimated cost of the largest type of council house excluding loan charges completed by the Oldham Corporation and approved by his Department; and what additional amount will be required to provide for repayment of loan charges over the whole period of the loan.

Mr. Brooke

The building price of the last three-bedroomed houses completed by Oldham Corporation was £1,504. I am unable to state the cost of the land, roads and services.

The total amount of the interest charges will depend on the average cost of borrowing and the period of amortisation.

Mr. Hale

Of course, it will. Is not the Minister aware of what are the normal rates of interest charges and the normal rules for borrowing? Is not he aware that these interest rates will amount to rather more than twice the cost of the house? If that be so, is not the vital problem of local government the problem of trying to provide reasonable financial facilities for the reduction of existing debts and for paying for capital expenditure out of income in the future?

Mr. Brooke

I think that the vital matter is the provision which is made by the Exchequer, and for local authorities which are in financial need on their housing revenue account the Government's new Housing Bill will provide fresh help.

Mr. M. Stewart

Has not the Minister come prepared with the answer to the latter part of my hon. Friend's Question based on the normal rates of interest and amortisation, and is his shyness in this matter due to the fact that if he gave such an answer it would reveal the unsatisfactory nature of the Government's policy with regard to interest rates?

Mr. Brooke

No. I am not shy at all and there is no secrecy about this, but it is not really much good my giving a figure based on the Public Works Loan Board rate when I know that the Oldham Corporation has not borrowed from the Public Works Loan Board for six years.

Mr. Hale

And for very good reasons.

19. Mr. Hale

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the present estimate of the economic rent which should be charged by Oldham Corporation for the most recent and largest type of corporation houses approved by his Department to enable the corporation to qualify for the maximum subsidy under the new scheme recently announced.

Mr. Brooke

The hon. Member is surely under a misapprehension. The proposed rates of subsidy under the Housing Bill are based on an overall assessment of the local authority's resources, not on the rents charged for particular houses.

Mr. Hale

That may be, but surely the right hon. Gentleman made it clear that to qualify for this it was necessary to charge economic rents for council houses? Is it not equally clear that what he is trying to do is to force tenants of Oldham houses to pay additional rents wholly to repay financial charges imposed by the Government upon the cost of the houses?

Mr. Brooke

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will listen to my speech when I move the Second Reading of the Housing Bill next week, because I am afraid that he has been misled by some mistaken accounts of the Bill in the Press.

Mr. M. Stewart

If anyone has been misled, is it not much more likely that he has been misled by the misleading phrases in the Government's White Paper? Although the Minister says, and according to the text of the Bill it is correct, that he is not trying to push local authorities into charging certain rents, none the less the White Paper says quite clearly that that is what he is trying to do. Why is there this contradiction?

Mr. Brooke

There is no contradiction. If the hon. Gentleman felt so strongly about the terms of the White Paper he might have mentioned the subject in his half-hour speech last night.