HC Deb 15 March 1961 vol 636 cc1541-2

Considered in Committee.

[Sir GORDON TOUCHE in the Chair]

Motion made, and Question proposed, That towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty for the service of the year ended on the 31st day of March, 1960, the sum of £;118,258 15s. 2d. be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom.—[Sir E. Boyle.]

9.55 p.m.

Mr. Sydney Silverman (Nelson and Colne)

On a point of order. I know that the practice followed in the last few minutes is that which has been followed on previous occasions for a few years, but it is not, I submit, covered by the Standing Order. There is no authority in the Standing Order for what has become the practice of lumping all the Civil Estimates together—Ministry of Labour, Ministry of Education, Board of Trade and all the others—so that hon. Members who might want to discriminate between Estimates, being in favour of one and against another—

The Chairman

Order. The hon. Member is now referring to Committee of Supply. We are in Committee of Ways and Means.

Mr. Silverman

I am addressing a point of order to you, Sir Gordon, on what I think we all agree to be the most important function which the House of Commons has to perform and which is the constitutional basis of the freedom and liberty and obligation of the House of Commons, namely, the control of Government expenditure. I admit that the procedure adopted tonight is in conformity with what has been the practice for a number of years, but it is not covered by the Standing Order and it makes the business of controlling Government expenditure a complete, utter, ridiculous and contemptible farce and the House of Commons ought not to submit to it. We ought to exercise our rights. The whole procedure of the

Division No. 111.] AYES [10.1 p.m.]
Agnew, Sir Peter Berkeley. Humphry Brewis, John
Allan, Robert (Paddington, S.) Bidgood, John C. Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. SirWalter
Allason, James Bishop, F. P. Browne, Percy (Torrington)
Atkins, Humphrey Black, Sir Cyril Bryan, Paul
Barlow, Sir John Bourne-Arton, A. Bullard, Denys
Barter, John Bowen, Roderic (Cardigan) Bullus, Wing Commander Eric
Bell, Ronald Box, Donald Burden, F. A.
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos & Film) Boyle, Sir Edward Butcher, Sir Herbert

House of Commons in the financial control of the Government is made completely farcical if we are compelled to give one composite vote about the Estimates of a number of Departments when we might be in favour of some and against others.

Mr. Stephen Swingler (Newcastle-under-Lyme)

Further to that point of order, of which I gave you notice, Sir Gordon. I wished previously to draw your attention to the fact that more than twenty Motions appear on the Order Paper, several in the names of hon. Members opposite.

The Chairman

Order. I have dealt with that point.

Mr. Swingler

My point of order is that we have voted millions of pounds, and that some hon. Members opposite wished to challenge the expenditure. They did not have the guts to come here and argue it, but they put Motions on the Order Paper.

The Chairman

That is not a point of order.

Mr. Swingler

On a point of order, Sir Gordon. I wish to ask for your Ruling on Standing Order 16. You said that Standing Order 16 required you to put the Question on the Civil Estimates en bloc. I now wish to ask you if, because of the procedure to which we have been subjected, you will tell us—

It being Ten o'clock, The CIIAIRMAN left the Chair to report Pt-ogress and ask leave to sit again.

Committee report Progress.