HC Deb 15 March 1961 vol 636 cc1382-4
20. Mr. Wingfield Digby

asked the Minister of Transport what advantage has accrued from the responsibility of his Department for shipbuilding, as well as shipping, as regards savings of money and manpower.

The Minister of Transport (Mr. Ernest Marples)

My Department was made responsible for shipbuilding as well as shipping not to save manpower but because both industries were facing difficult times and their fortunes are closely tied.

Mr. Digby

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research Report on shipbuilding points out that this country has become a net importer of ships recently for the first time, at the very moment when our own shipbuilding yards need more orders? Cannot he use his persuasive powers, and perhaps a little financial inducement, to get more orders for British yards and from British ship-owners?

Mr. Marples

The great point about our shipbuilding yards is that they must be competitive with yards abroad. We have, as my hon. Friend knows, a Sub-Committee of the Shipbuilding Advisory Committee which has made a report on the question of shipbuilding. It is referred to in a later Question.

Mr. Mellish

Surely the Minister is aware that his Department can be judged only upon results, and that at the moment its results for the British shipbuilding industry can only be said to be absolutely deplorable, and that most of us consider that his Department is just not equipped to do this sort of work?

Mr. Marples

I entirely disagree with the hon. Member, and I am sure he would expect me to disagree with him.

Mr. P. Williams

Is my right hon. Friend aware that not only have we become a net importer of ships but we have also become a net importer of shipbuilding facilities for the first time in our history, and that these two things coupled together cannot help but cause us serious disquiet about the policy of the Ministry of Transport? In view of the anxieties on these two factors, will my right hon. Friend convey to the Americans the impression, which I think is felt on both sides of the House, that their practice in both shipping and shipbuilding is a considerable disservice to the free world in general and to Britain in particular?

Mr. Marples

As to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, the General Council of British Shipping is sending a representative to Washington shortly and my Department has made arrangements, through the Ambassador and various people, for him to make representations directly to the Americans. I hope that that will have effect. As to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I disagree with my hon. Friend because I think that the shipbuilding industry, which is private enterprise, really ought to be prepared to face up to competition from other private enterprise industries in other countries.

Mr. Popplewell

Will the right hon. Gentleman please be not quite so flamboyant about this? Does he not realise that the difficulties of shipping and shipbuilding come from outside their control and demand Government action—on flags of discrimination in particular—in order to get our shipping and shipbuilding a fair deal in world trade? Does he not realise that subsidies given by other countries for their shipping and shipbuilding make it impossible for our own people to compete on a fair competitive basis? Does he not realise that it is Government action which is the answer to this?

Mr. Marples

As far as shipping is concerned, as distinct from shipbuilding, as the hon. Member well knows, the General Council of British Shipping has made certain recommendations which have taken eighteen months to get out and which I am considering with the Council very closely. We have had four or five meetings. I saw the chairman yesterday. He is satisfied with the progress we are making with our joint consultation. The hon. Member may not be, but the industry itself is. With regard to shipbuilding, for the first time for many years a Sub-Committee of the Shipbuilding Advisory Committee has been able to get a joint report from the various interests concerned, that is, the employers and trade unions. That, as I said before, is the subject of a later Question.