§ 54. Mr. Nabarroasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the present number of non-industrial civil servants compared with 638,299 in 1959; and what will be the cost of their salaries and wages in the year ending 31st March, 1961.
§ Mr. BarberThe figures are 644,237 at 1st January, 1961; and, on the best estimate now possible, £555 million.
§ Mr. NabarroDo not these figures demonstrate that the bureaucracy in this country is tending to increase? Is it not a fact that the Chancellor of the Exchequer and many of his Ministerial colleagues are continually exhorting private industry to make itself more efficient and productive? Could not those admirable principles be applied with profit to the nation and to the swollen bureaucracy?
§ Mr. BarberThere have recently been certain new or extended functions of Government, for example, the graduated pensions scheme, which affects the Inland Revenue and National Insurance, the rating revaluation and the higher demand on the services of the Post Office. The following figures are significant; the main increases are 2,200 for the Inland Revenue, 1,900 for National Insurance and National Assistance, and 1,900 for the Post Office.
§ Mr. HoyIs the Minister aware that the British public welcome this type of increased expenditure rather than that Members of the House should receive subsidies from private organisations such as Aims of Industry Limited?
§ Mr. Langford-HoltHave any suggestions been received by my right hon. Friend from the Civil Service organisations as to how they can streamline themselves in order that they may deal with the other problems which bother them, namely, that of non-establishment?
§ Mr. BarberThe question of the size of the Civil Service is one which my right hon. Friend considers from time to time, particularly in connection with pay claims.
§ Mr. LiptonIs it correct that the Prime Minister is shortly to announce that bureaucracy is fun?
§ Vice-Admiral Hughes HallettWhile recognising that the amount of work to be done by the Civil Service has increased, may I ask whether my hon. Friend is satisfied that the maximum use is made of modern computers and other forms of automatic aids to office work?
§ Mr. BarberI am sure that my right hon. Friend will take note of what my hon. and gallant Friend said.
§ Mr. HaymanWill the hon. Gentleman confirm that 21 per cent. of the people in civil employment in this country are engaged in the professional, administrative and miscellaneous services? Does he not think that that is too big a proportion in private enterprise?
§ Mr. BarberI am sure that if it were possible to carry out efficiently the functions of Government with a smaller number than are at present engaged in the Administration that would be done. That is not, however, an easy matter. If my hon. Friend or any other hon. Member has proposals to put forward for cutting the Civil Service in certain spheres, I am sure that my right hon. and learned Friend will be only too pleased to consider them.