HC Deb 26 June 1961 vol 643 cc30-2
Mr. Strachey

Mr. Speaker, I rise to ask your guidance. In view of the fact that you were unable, no doubt on substantial grounds, to grant my request to ask a Private Notice Question on what we consider to be the entirely unjustifiable decision of the Air Transport Advisory Committee on the Cunard Eagle application, may I have your guidance on the way in which we can raise in the House what we consider to be this most important and urgent matter?

Mr. Speaker

I can only say, most certainly not in that way. It is the practice of the House not to refer to Private Notice Questions which are not allowed. If the right hon. Gentleman would like to come and see me, I will try to help him to think about some way in which the matter could be raised, for instance, by putting an appropriate Motion on the Order Paper, but I should have to think about it.

Mr. Harold Davies rose

Sir A. V. Harvey rose

Mr. Speaker

This is not a point of order. It never was one. We cannot discuss it.

Mr. Strachey

Mr. Speaker, may I have your assurance that on Thursday when we discuss the North Atlantic Shipping Bill, which has now become inextricably bound up with this matter, especially the financial aspect, it will be possible to raise this matter?

Mr. Speaker

So far as I remember, that Bill is at present in Committee and I do not carry in my mind the Amendments on which it might be suggested that the topic would be relevant. There is really no ground on which we can discuss this matter now.

Sir A. V. Harvey

With respect, Mr. Speaker, following the point raised by the right hon. Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Strachey), who sought your guidance, may I be allowed, with the greatest respect, to point out that if B.O.A.C. has said—

Hon. Members

No.

Mr. Speaker

Order. There can be no ground whatever for discussing the merits of this matter now.

Sir A. V. Harvey

You did say, Sir, that you would consider the matter.

May I be allowed to point out that the Corporation has intimated that it intends to lodge an appeal? If so, is not the matter sub judice?

Mr. Speaker

I quite understand that point. What I said was that if the right hon. Gentleman felt that he required my assistance I would consider with him what could be done. I was not for a moment suggesting that anything could be done while there was an appeal pending. It is really no good trying to discuss the point now.

Mr. Rankin

May we have your guidance on this point, Mr. Speaker? You have suggested that you would discuss with my right hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Strachey) whether some method could be adopted whereby the House might have a chance of discussing this matter. This is the point that is important to the House—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am not here to give guidance. I am here to rule when some matter arises on which a Ruling is required. As a matter of courtesy, although I would not back myself against the wisdom of the right hon. Gentleman as to what can or cannot be done here, I did say that I would see him, if he wanted my help, and discuss the machinery of the matter. But there is really no ground for discussion.

Mr. P. Williams

On a separate point or order. Is it not an abuse of the House to seek to raise a matter of this nature when, in fact, an appeal is pending against a decision?

Mr. Speaker

What is wrong is to refer to a Private Notice Question that was not allowed. We got off on the wrong foot about it, and I hope that we can drop it.

Mr. Harold Davies

May I ask your guidance, Mr. Speaker, because it is relevant to the issue? Question No. 62 on the Order Paper is relevant to this problem. May the House know whether the Minister sought your permission to make a statement on that Question today?

Mr. Speaker

He did not.