HC Deb 26 June 1961 vol 643 cc61-3
Mr. Paget

I beg to move, in page 12, line 18, after "continued" to insert: for the period requested in the application or for such less period as the competent air force authority may approve". The object of this Amendment is similar to that of the last one I moved. It gives discretion to the provisions contained in the Clause, to extend not merely on a three-months' to three-months' basis but for a definite period, should that suit the convenience both of the Air Force and the man concerned. It is purely discretionary. The man need not ask for a definite period, and the Air Force may not want a definite period. I should have thought that there were circumstances in which it might be convenient to both to have a definite period of extension.

Mr. W. J. Taylor

As the Clause stands, a man continues to serve for an indefinite period. He can take his discharge at any time by giving three months' notice, and the Air Force can discharge him at any time with full terminal leave, and so on. The Amendment would provide for the continuance for a fixed period only, subject to the man's right to take his discharge on three months' notice—

Mr. Paget

The Minister says that the Amendment would provide for a fixed period only. That is not right. It is entirely a question of discretion. It allows for an indefinite period, as at present, or for a fixed period in special cases, if it is thought desirable. It merely widens the present discretion; it in no way confines it.

Mr. Taylor

As I read it, the Amendment would provide for the continuance for a fixed period only, subject to the airman's right to have his discharge be- fore the end of the period, on giving three months' notice.

Mr. Paget

That is not what the Amendment says. It refers to the period requested in the application which may be an indefinite or a fixed period— or for such less period as the competent air force authority may approve. That may be on a three months' to three months' basis. The Amendment simply provides that the Air Force can lay down a fixed period if it chooses and the airman agrees.

Mr. Taylor

I appreciate that, but I cannot see what advantage the Amendment confers either upon the man or the Service. If there were any merit in the Amendment which would do either of those things some reasonable purpose would be served in discussing details, but as the Amendment is drafted I cannot see that it benefits either the man or the Service.

Mr. Paget

A man who comes to the end of his period of service may wish to continue. Surely there are circumstances in which he would like to continue for a definite period, just as there are when he enlists. It would then be for the convenience of the Air Force to fix a definite period. Why should there not be some discretion to deal with this point? An indefinite period may usually be convenient, and nothing in the Amendment would prevent it, but if a fixed period is desired the Amendment allows for it.

Mr. Taylor

The hon. and learned Gentleman is a very persuasive advocate, hut, as in the case of his previous Amendment, I am not prepared to give way to his arguments.

Amendment negatived.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

That the Clause stand part of the Bill.

5.0 p.m.

Mr. Paget

I read this Clause several times, trying to ascertain its meaning, and I hope that the Minister will not be offended if I say that I have a feeling that he himself had some difficulty in ascertaining just what it means.

I tried in a proposed new Clause—(Continuation in service in Royal Air Force after end of term)—which has not been selected, to say in simple language what I thought this Clause meant. I think that it means that A person in air force service who has served not less than twelve years may, in the last year of his current term, apply to be kept on, and if the competent air force authority consent he shall continue as though his term were unexpired save that sections nine to eleven of this Act shall no longer apply to him and that he may at any time claim his discharge on giving three months' notice in writing". Is not that in fact what Clause 12 states, and, if so, would not this be a simpler way of expressing it?

Question put and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 13 and 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill.