Constitution

HC Deb 20 July 1961 vol 644 cc1437-9

17. Mr. Callaghan

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies to what extent he has reconsidered his plans for implementing the new constitution for Northern Rhodesia, in the light of the opposition expressed by Asians and Africans in that territory.

Mr. Iain Macleod

I will, of course, consider all representations made to me, but I have nothing to add to the reply which I made to the hon. Members for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) and for Dundee, East (Mr. G. M. Thomson) on 13th July.

Mr. Callaghan

Does the Colonial Secretary really think that the bitterness of tension—I use these words advisedly—which is being expressed and which is growing in Northern Rhodesia creates a likely climate in which his proposed constitution can succeed? Does he not see that it would be far better for him to reconsider these proposals in order to get a larger measure of agreement than to allow the existing situation to deteriorate as it is doing?

Mr. Macleod

With respect, I do not think that that is so. The matter upon which most comment has centred has been the provision of an Asian representative, which is a matter which I should like to discuss and perhaps later shall have an opportunity of discussing. The hon. Member knows that there are many territories which have welcomed such a provision, and I think that we ought to look at that idea and other ideas which have been presented on their merits. They may probably command wider support than the hon. Member thinks.

Mr. Callaghan

I certainly hope so. How does the Colonial Secretary propose to remove the widely held view that his proposals have been made in a way which will ensure the victory of one party before the election is held?

Mr. Macleod

I simply do not believe that anyone who really calculates for a moment the effects of the equalising of the rolls, where the Africans have almost every vote in the lower roll and something like 10 per cent. or 11 per cent. In the upper roll, can possibly come to that conclusion.

Sir G. Nicholson

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the really important thing is to secure some stability in Northern Rhodesia, at any rate for the time being? Is not it a case of the sergeant-major's dictum, "Right or wrong, stand still", at any rate for the time being?

Mr. Brockway

Has the right hon. Gentleman read the reports in the Press today about the very disturbing situation in Northern Rhodesia? Has he seen that the Council of Churches has asked the Governor to reconsider the present constitutional proposals? Is he aware of our deep concern about conditions there which may lead to an appalling situation unless the constitutional proposals are changed?

Mr. Macleod

Of course I am closely informed and, I like to think, well informed about what is happening in Northern Rhodesia. I am well aware of the criticisms which are made. On the other hand, I think that there would have been more criticism of almost any other course of action than the one which I have put forward. This may be optimistic, but I believe that if one makes a more careful study of the proposals than I consider the initial reactions indicate has been made, they will be seen in full and in their true light.