§ 49. Mr. Brockwayasked the Prime Minister if he will instruct all the Service Departments to refrain from authorising performances by their bands in South Africa under conditions where persons are excluded from the audience solely on the grounds of colour or race.
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. The incident which I think the hon. Member has in mind was a private engagement undertaken by the Royal Marine Band at the invitation of the Royal Naval Association of South Africa. The Band played in the open air on the same day to an audience of several thousand people of all races.
§ Mr. BrockwayIs the Prime Minister aware that this is the same ship in which we refrained from including coloured persons in appeasement of the attitude of South Africa? Is not this humiliation aggravated by the fact that the Marines Band from this ship played to an audience in Cape Town from which coloured persons were excluded, and will the right hon. Gentleman seek to reverse this policy?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. As I have said, there were two engagements. One was with the Royal Naval Association, and I have the information that a number of whites and coloureds were refused because they were not members of the Association. Then the band also played in the open air, where a very large and very appreciative audience of all races was present.
§ Mr. CallaghanIf there are some difficulties about playing on shore to mixed audiences—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Obviously, there have been—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] As there are some difficulties about—[Interruption.] Mr. Speaker, may I put that question again?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I would like to get through as many Questions as we properly can. Mr. Callaghan.
§ Mr. CallaghanAs there are difficulties in South Africa about white people and Africans mixing, would the Prime Minister consider making a signal to "Victorious" that it would give great pleasure to the House of Commons if they were to invite a party of white people and Africans aboard the ship, under the British flag, where they could fraternise? In that way we could show our intense dislike of this policy of apartheid?
§ The Prime MinisterThat is an entirely different question. What I was asked was whether the band had played to an audience from which coloured people were excluded. The answer was that not only coloured people but white people were excluded, because it was the body of a particular Association called the Royal Naval Association and it was very reasonable that people who were not members should not go. On the other hand, the band did play—and, I am told, with great success—to a large audience in the open air, where everybody listened to it.
§ Mr. GrimondCan the Prime Minister tell us whether coloured people are, in fact, allowed to be members of the Royal Naval Association?
§ The Prime MinisterI have no doubt that they were not, because they were not members of the Navy, but the people who were excluded were excluded because they were not members. But if, on the very same day, the band plays to a large audience of mixed races, I think that shows the job we wanted to do.
§ Mr. CallaghanWill not the Prime Minister answer my question? Would it not be a very good example if he were to make the signal to "Victorious" so that he could show—we could all show—that in this House of Commons we believe that this mixing of the races is extremely desirable?
§ The Prime MinisterI think we have made what we feel perfectly clear, and I made it perfectly clear when I spoke as Prime Minister. Our position and feelings here are very well known.
§ Mr. CallaghanWhy take them off the ship?