HC Deb 28 February 1961 vol 635 cc1379-81
Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member for Pembroke (Mr. Donnelly) has given notice that he wanted to raise something, and this is the moment.

Mr. Desmond Donnelly (Pembroke)

I should like your guidance, Mr. Speaker, on a matter of which I have given you private notice. It stems from an Answer given by the Lord Privy Seal, on 22nd February, when, in reply to a Question of mine about China, he said: 1 have nothing to add to what I told the House on 8th February and to what was said in another place on that day."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 22nd February 1961; Vol. 635, c. 495.] Originally, I sought to ask a Question involving a statement by the Foreign Secre- tary in another place and, quite properly, the Table rejected it on the ground that it was not appropriate to ask a question about proceedings in another place. However, Erskine May, at page 358 of the present edition, states that exception has been taken to a reference to a debate in the Lords during a current Session as an Answer to a Question.

There is a footnote in Erskine May that refers to a parallel. I found that there was a misprint in recent editions of Erskine May, but thanks to the Officers of the House, I have been able to trace the parallel, which refers to column 2303 of Volume 105 of the OFFICIAL REPORT of 9th May, 1918, which does not involve a Speaker's Ruling, but involves a statement to Mr. Chancellor in very similar terms.

The point on which I wish to seek your guidance, Mr. Speaker, is whether a Government remain directly accountable to the House for their actions in foreign affairs as was stated by the Prime Minister in the debate that took place on 28th July, last year.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman would understand that the problem of political responsibility is not for me nor, indeed, would it be in order to discuss it now. As far as procedure goes, I am much obliged to the hon. Member for having given me warning of this so that I could look at the authorities. There is, in fact, nothing out of order in what has happened. The Minister's reply and the hon. Member's Question were in order.

Mr. Donnelly

I am very grateful to you, Mr. Speaker, for the consideration you have given to this point, but Erskine May says that exception has been taken to quoting statements from another place in answer to Questions here. In the circumstances, it is very difficult for us to adhere to the original point of order about not being able to ask Questions about what happens in another place. If Answers are being given which refer to what has been said in another place, it places the Commons in a very invidious position vis-à-vis the House of Lords.

Mr. Speaker

I am not sure that that is right, with respect to the hon. Member. What happened in the instance to which he referred me was that objection was taken by the questioning Member to the Minister's giving a reference to a statement in another place as an Answer —not in an Answer—but as an Answer which was the only Answer then tendered. There was not any ruling from the Chair about it, but I understand that the position is that not all the rules that apply to Questions apply to Answers, and it is quite in order, in an Answer, to refer to a statement in another place.

Mr. Gaitskell

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will doubtless be aware that on the occasion in 1918 that my hon. Friend mentions an hon. Member—I think that it was Mr. Chancellor—put a Question to the Home Secretary about the treatment of conscientious objectors, but the Home Secretary replied by referring to the statement in the Lords. The hon. Member objected, and the Minister at once admitted that he had, in fact, been wrong in giving such an Answer and agreed to make a full Answer if a further Question was put down. A further Question was put down, and such an Answer was given.

I am quite sure that my hon. Friend would not wish to make too much of this, but it is, I think, far more appropriate that, in answering Questions, Ministers should not merely refer to speeches in the Lords but should make their own statements. I hope that you will give your blessing, at any rate, to that idea.

Mr. Speaker

I am not sure how much I am entitled to blame or bless. The observations of the right hon. Gentleman will have been heard. All I can say is that nothing has happened which is out of order, because it is on that basis that I have to make my pronouncement.