HC Deb 23 February 1961 vol 635 cc788-90
44. Mr. P. Williams

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider reviewing the Ministerial and administrative arrangements for overseeing the shipping and shipbuilding industries.

The Prime Minister

No, Sir. While I fully realise the importance of the problems confronting these industries, I think the Ministry of Transport is properly charged with them.

Mr. Williams

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable feeling that insufficient is being done to initiate policies helpful to the shipping industry, especially in taxation and matters of flag discrimination, and flags of convenience as well? Would he not consider it a worth-while policy to remove some of the load from the shoulders of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport, so that he might devote all his great talents to road and rail matters, which obviously have his great enthusiasm and support?

The Prime Minister

Questions of organisation within the Government are always difficult. What my hon. Friend is asking for is a Minister of Shipping and Shipbuilding. Whether that will help to solve the problems which are largely matters affecting Ministers as well, I am not persuaded, but if there should be any question that some change would be desirable, it will be made. Meanwhile, I am confident that my right hon. Friend is handling these matters with full energy.

Mr. Shinwell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, although the Minister of Transport seems to be fully charged, the trouble is that he always explodes in the wrong direction? Is the Prime Minister aware that his right hon. Friend does not really understand the nature of this problem—that he has not a clue about it? Is it not time that he was either advised by people who do understand the problem, or that he devoted himself to road and rail and left this subject to people who comprehend what it means?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman is so persuasive that I feel inclined to ask him whether he would come and discuss this matter with me.

Mr. McMaster

In view of the very great importance to the economy of the United Kingdom, and to our export trade, of these two great traditional industries on which our name as a major maritime nation is based, does not my right hon. Friend consider that they deserve the full attention of a separate Minister? I say that without casting any aspersions on my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport. Would the Prime Minister agree to give this further consideration?

The Prime Minister

No, Sir. As anyone who has served in the Government knows, it is not by setting up separate Ministries that we solve all these matters, which are under the closest continual consideration by the Government Departments concerned, That is how the Government get the work through. It is not necessarily right to say that to set up a separate Ministry helps in the matter of the Departments concerned working together.

Mr. Popplewell

Whether or not the question of a separate Ministry is involved, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that there is urgent need for something to be done for these two industries? Matters are now so difficult that it is not possible for the industries themselves to make the necessary arrangement to attract shipping in the way in which we ought to attract it. Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there is an overwhelming cry and need for Government action to safeguard these two industries?

The Prime Minister

These are great problems and we are studying them. There is great need for the Government to do what they can, and this lies largely in diplomacy. If I may humbly say so, there is also need for these industries to do something for themselves.