Situation (Hansard, 15 February 1961)

§ 30. Mr. A. Henderson
asked the Lord Privy Seal whether he will make a further statement on the situation in the Congo.

§ 32. Mr. Driberg
asked the Lord Privy Seal what information he has about the latest developments in the Congo, especially with regard to Mr. Lumumbar and what action to deal with this situation is now being proposed or supported in the United Nations by Her Majesty's Government.

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
Hon. Members in all parts of the House will have been deeply shocked by the news of the murder of Mr. Lumumba and his two companions. It is a disgraceful episode which we utterly deplore and which can only increase the difficulty of bringing peace and order to the Congo.
The House will be aware that Her Majesty's Government have constantly urged that the Red Cross should be allowed to examine detained prisoners in the Congo to ensure that they were treated humanely and that their safety was assured. We also urged that all prisoners should be treated according to the due processes of law and should be brought to fair and open trial or be released. This policy was embodied in resolutions we co-sponsored both in the Security Council and the General Assembly. The first of these resolutions was vetoed by the Soviet Union, the second failed by one vote to get the necessary two-thirds majority of the Assembly.
Before the death of Mr. Lumumba, the preliminary phases of the Round Table discussions had been taking place in Leopoldville, and a Provisional Government has been installed, pending a meeting of the Congolese Legislature, to replace the previous administration of Commissioners General. We regarded this as one promising feature in an otherwise depressing picture. No one suggests that this Government is yet fully comprehensive but it does bring together a large number of Parties, including some who had been supporters of Mr. Lumumba. It is reported that discus- 1398 sions are continuing with other leaders, notably in Elisabethville and Stanleyville, and a substantial improvement in the situation would result if they also will agree to join in. Various Ministries have been left unfilled in this Government for precisely this purpose. This process, which it is the purpose of the United Nations Conciliation Commission led by Mr. Wachuku of Nigeria to encourage, seems to offer the best hope of a settlement of internal differences by peaceful means.
The Security Council discussion on the Congo situation is due to be resumed today. We have been in close consultation with other delegations at the United Nations and my information is that the debate today will start with a statement by Mr. Stevenson on behalf of the United States. We have undertaken to give full support to the proposals he intends to make. Meanwhile, we can only deplore the Soviet Union's attempt to use the tragic situation in the Congo to intensify their vendetta against the Secretary-General and what, in fact, amounts to their attack on the United Nations Charter itself.

§ Mr. G. Thomas
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Having regard to the obvious abuse of Question Time to make a very long statement, would it be in order at least for the Questions to follow to come after Question Time?

§ Mr. Speaker
As the hon. Gentleman knows, I cannot do that. I suggest that we get on with it now and discuss the virtues or demerits of the practice afterwards.

§ Mr. Driberg
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it not rather unfortunate that, on a very important issue like this, hon. Members of the House of Commons should have to go and stand at the Bar in another place to hear a fully responsible statement on it—such as is, I gather, being made there this afternoon?

§ Mr. Speaker
That is not a point of order. It is merely taking up time.

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
I was asked for a statement on the situation in the Congo. If I may, I will read the last part of the statement I was making.
We believe that the Secretary-General has faithfully and loyally carried out 1399 his mandate in the Congo, and any blame for lack of success in the United Nations operations so far cannot rightly be placed on his shoulders.

§ Mr. Henderson
In view of the sinister circumstances surrounding the murder of Mr. Lumumba and the various accusations which have been made, particularly against the Secretary-General, is it the policy of Her Majesty's Government to support the setting up of an impartial United Nations inquiry into the circumstances surrounding his death?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
The Secretary-General has already asked that an inquiry should take place, and we support him in that.

§ Mr. Driberg
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this terrible outrage places a still heavier burden of guilt on the Belgian colonialists who, having walked out without having educated the Congolese people—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—,towards self-government, are now crawling back again, arming their murderous puppets, such as Mr. Tshombe, and instigating violence?—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Will hon. Members be quiet? Will the right hon. Gentleman take—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I cannot hear whether any part of the question is in order if there is such a noise.

§ Mr. Driberg
Will the right hon. Gentleman take very seriously indeed the grave view of these events which is held in such Commonwealth countries as Ghana and India?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
We take a very grave view of these events, but some of the hon. Member's accusations against the Belgians are wholly without foundation.

§ Mr. Driberg
Which accusations?

§ Mr. Brockway
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to refer to Question No. 5 among the Questions for Written Answer, which should have appeared among the Questions for Oral Answer? Did the right hon. Gentleman see yesterday in a Conservative newspaper the heading "The corpse on our conscience"? Is it not the case that responsibility for this murder rests not only upon Mr. Tshombe, General Mobutu and 1400 Mr. Kasavubu, but also upon the Belgians, who have maintained—[Interruption.]—Mr. in office by their military assistance, and also upon our Government, who—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Emrys Hughes
On a point of order. It is impossible, Mr. Speaker, to hear what my hon. Friend is saying, since the noble Lord the Member for Dorset, South (Viscount Hinchingbrooke) thinks that he is answering the question.

§ Mr. Speaker
My fatigue at trying to hear is slightly increased by the din. Let us get on.

§ Mr. Gower
Is it in order for hon. Members to accuse our Government of matters for which they do not have full responsibility?

§ Mr. Speaker
The Minister can only be asked about matters for which he has Ministerial responsibility. Responsibility is confused in the somewhat composite form of the question.

§ Mr. Brockway
—and also upon our Government and the Eisenhower régime—[Interruption.]

Hon. Members
This is out of order.

§ Mr. Speaker
I cannot distinguish what part of the question is in order unless I can hear it. May I have the assistance of the House in listening to the question?

§ Mr. Brockway
Thank you, Mr. Speaker—which, by their recognition at the United Nations of Mr. Kasavubu, the head of a party which got only 10 per cent. of the votes, instead of Mr. Lumumba—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."]—who was the Prime Minister appointed by the Government—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. This is now most irregular. All that part about the Eisenhower Administration onwards is out of order. My impression, however, is that the question was drifting into being a speech.

§ Mr. Brockway
On a point of order. My Question No. 5 which is by mistake among the Questions for Written Answer—

§ Mr. Nabarro
It has nothing to do with it.

§ Mr. Speaker
I am not assisted by commentary when hon. Members try to raise a point of order.

§ Mr. Brockway
I will submit my point of order quietly to you, Mr. Speaker. My Question No. 5, which by mistake is placed among the Questions for Written Answer, refers to a letter which I wrote last Wednesday to the Lord Privy Seal. That letter raised all the questions which I put in my supplementary question. I submit that those matters are in order.

§ Mr. Speaker
I have difficulty in helping the hon. Member about it. Had he asked what action the Minister took in reply to a request of his, the position would have been different, but I did not heal the hon. Member ask that.

§ Mr. Driberg
Further to that point of order. Surely, with respect, a resolution of the United Nations to which Her Majesty's Government were a party is within the responsibility of Ministers?

§ Mr. Speaker
There was nothing about that in the long passage concerning the responsibility of the American Government or the Belgian Government or matters of that kind. I would like to got on, because this is of much interest.

§ Mr. Driberg
I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, but we must clear this up. It is an important matter. My hon. Friend was referring to the recognition of Mr. Kasavubu by the United Nations. In that matter, Her Majesty's Government share responsibility.

§ Mr. Speaker
I hope that I am not doing the hon. Member an injustice. It is somewhat difficult to hear accurately. I understood the hon. Member's question to be relating, in part at all events, to the responsibility of the Eisenhower Administration for that recognition. That is a quite different point.

§ Mr. Brockway
Further to that point of order. It will be within your recollection, Mr. Speaker, that I referred to the responsibility of the British Government. It is true that I included the Eisenhower Government, because those two Governments were mainly responsible for the resolution. The point which I am putting is that they recognised as the authority for the Congo a leader who obtained only 10 per cent. 1402 of the votes, rather than the appointed—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. S. Silverman
What is the guilty conscience about?

§ Mr. Brockway
—rather than the Prime Minister appointed by the elected Government.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Member is repeating what he said before.

§ Mr. Rankin
Hon. Members opposite are doing the same.

§ Mr. Speaker
That is not a regular form of question. Part of the question was capable of answer and was in order. Perhaps we can have it answered now.

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
In accordance with the procedure of the United Nations, the resolution recognising Mr. Kasavubu's delegates to the United Nations was passed by more than a two-thirds majority of the members of the United Nations. It was in accordance with the procedure of the United Nations that delegates should be appointed by Heads of State. Nobody at the United Nations—neither the Soviet Union nor any other country—ever disputed that Mr. Kasavubu was the Head of State of the Republic of the Congo. That has never been disputed.
As regards Her Majesty's Government's responsibility for the death of Mr. Lumumba, I have already read out the terms in which we put forward resolutions asking for the Red Cross to investigate the conditions in which he was held in imprisonment, and we also wished to see him either given a fair trial or released. The fact that those resolutions either were vetoed by the Soviet Government or did not obtain a two-thirds majority of the Assembly is not the fault of Her Majesty's Government.

§ Mr. Gaitskell
rose—

§ Mr. Gower
On a point of order. In the light of what my right hon. Friend the Minister of State has said, should not these disgraceful allegations now be withdrawn?

§ Mr. Speaker
No. I want to get on. Mr. Gaitskell.

§ Mr. Gaitskell
Is the Minister of State aware that it would have been much better if he had made a statement on this matter after Questions? It would have been fairer to other hon. Members who have put down Questions. Will he take note that in future this should be done? Secondly, may I ask why, when a statement of this degree of importance is being made, it should not be made by the Cabinet Minister responsible for foreign affairs? Why cannot the Lord Privy Seal come and answer the Question himself?
Thirdly, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we on this side deeply deplore the death of Mr. Lumumba, and, particularly in view of the refusal of Mr. Tshombe even to see the United Nations Chief of Staff, the suspicions which already have been aroused that Mr. Lumumba was killed on the instructions of Mr. Tshombe's Government are confirmed? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that whatever the rights and wrongs of the past may be, this situation creates an exceedingly grave crisis both for the Congo and for the United Nations, and, possibly, for the world?
Is the Minister further aware that while we for our part regard the attack on Mr. Hammarskjöld as totally unjustified, for he has been doing his best in very difficult circumstances—indeed, under almost impossible conditions—and while we take the view that outside intervention in this situation can only make things worse and more dangerous, nevertheless, if there is to be any real hope of saving the situation, it is essential that the Belgians must withdraw from the Congo and that until they do so the suspicions of Africans and Asians that this is an attempt to return to the imposition of a colonialist regime cannot be stilled?
May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman can give us any idea of what Mr. Stevenson will say, because we do not know whether the Government would be right in supporting him until we hear this? Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the best hope in the present situation remains that of trying to associate the nations of Africa and Asia with the United Nations in trying to find a solution to this problem?
1404 Will Her Majesty's Government therefore urgently consult with the Prime Minister of India on this extremely grave matter?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
I will certainly take note of what the right hon. Gentleman has had to say. As for the first part of the supplementary question, I regret it if it has been inconvenient for the House that I should have made a long statement during Questions. I had been asked in the Questions for a statement, and I thought it necessary to make rather a full one. As for the absence of my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal, he is at the moment in Geneva attending a conference of E.F.T.A., otherwise I am sure that he would have wished to answer the Questions himself. On the matters raised, I am afraid that before the actual meeting of the Security Council I cannot try to describe to the House the precise lines along which the resolution is to be submitted to the Security Council, but the debate takes place this afternoon and it will be public knowledge later today.

§ Sir J. Vaughan-Morgan
Has my right hon. Friend any information about the circumstances in which Europeans and Africans are living in the Orientale and Kivu Provinces who might possibly be subjected to reprisals for this dastardly murder?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
There are very few British subjects now left in Kivu Province, if any. As for the Orientale Province, I understand that there are still nine British subjects in Stanleyville. We have been trying for some time now to see that anybody who wished to leave was brought out, but it has been very difficult to get exit permits from the Gizenga authorities. Also in Orientale Province there are about 40 missionaries in out-of-the-way stations and they have on the whole preferred to remain where they are. Our reports so far from the Congo, both from Leopoldville and Stanleyville, is that all is now quiet.

§ Mr. Gaitskell
May I press the right hon. Gentleman to answer my question about consultations with Mr. Nehru?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that we have been in very close consultation with various members of the Commonwealth, including India.

§ Mr. Donnelly
In view of the fluid nature of the situation, could the right hon. Gentleman make another statement tomorrow about what happened in the United Nations?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
I would have to see about that.

§ Mr. Wade
In view of the very serious repercussions that may well follow from these events in the Congo and the possible failure of the United Nations operation there, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman would make it quite clear that the Government will give wholehearted support to the Secretary-General and, in particular, will back him in resisting attacks upon him whether from the Soviet Union or from other sources, such as Mr. Tshombe? Will Her Majesty's Government take some opportunity of welcoming the statesmanlike views expressed recently by representatives of Malaya and Nigeria in support of the United Nations?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
I will certainly give the hon. Member an assurance that we will loyally stand by the Secretary-General who, as the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition has said, has done everything possible in very difficult circumstances. Quite frankly, if every other country had given him as loyal support as we have the problems of the Congo would not be what they are now.

§ Mr. Mendelson
Arising from the right hon. Gentleman's earlier statement, and while fully agreeing that it would be unreasonable to ask for Mr. Hammarskjold's resignation in a very difficult situation, may I ask whether he would not agree that the British Government ought to request in the United Nations a full inquiry into Mr. Tshombe's responsibility for this murder and demand compensation for the widow and make quite clear what is the view of this country at any rate? May I ask that we should use all our influence in the United Nations to secure that these things are done forthwith?
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the last official report by Mr. Dayal, the United Nations chief representative in the Congo, acting directly on behalf of Mr. HammarskjOld, it was reported that more than 132 officers in charge of troops in the Congo, 1406 including Katanga, are Belgians? Is it not clear, therefore, that the responsibility for the murder is partly at any rate on the shoulders of the Belgian Government as well?

§ Mr. Ormsby Gore
On the last part of that supplementary question, there is all the difference in the world between individual Belgians being employed by the Katanga Government and the responsibility of the Belgian Government. The Belgian Government have made a recent statement saying that they disagree with the recruitment of further Belgians for operations in the Congo. That is the position of the Belgian Government.
As for the previous part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, I have already indicated that the Secretary-General is doing all in his power to have an investigation take place of the circumstances of this murder, and we support him.

§ Mr. Speaker
Ballot for Notices of Motions.