HC Deb 13 February 1961 vol 634 cc913-5
18. Mrs. Castle

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance why Mr. and Mrs. Duxbury, of Blackburn, have been refused a guardian's allowance in respect of their two grandchildren who are now in their care.

Miss Hornsby-Smith

Since no claim for guardian's allowance has been made in this case, there has been no formal determination by the adjudicating authority. However, as I have told the hon. Lady, it would appear from the information I have that the conditions for the allowance, which are laid down in the National Insurance Acts and regulations, are not satisfied.

Mrs. Castle

Is the right hon. Lady aware that I have made a claim to her in this case on behalf of the grandparents? Is not she fully aware also that the mother of these two children was murdered by her husband and that he is now serving a term of life imprisonment? Is not she aware that I brought to her notice a request by the grandparents, who are taking charge of these children, that they should be given a guardian's allowance because they are only working people and cannot afford to do this? Is not it quite intolerable that a guardian's allowance should be refused in such a case? If the right hon. Lady has not the power to act under the National Insurance Acts—and she shows no particular willingness to do so—will not she seek powers to amend the legislation?

Miss Hornsby-Smith

My right hon. Friend and I have the greatest sympathy with this very tragic and practically unique case. But, as I explained to the hon. Lady, in the first place such an application must be made by the parents. This benefit is an orphan's benefit. [Interruption.] I am very sorry, but the hon. Lady rightly puts it when she says that the law does not provide for the classification of children as if they were orphans where there may be a surviving parent who, for many and varied reasons, is unable or unwilling for the time being to accept responsibility. We have every sympathy for this unique case, but, as the law stands, with a surviving parent the children cannot be classified as orphans.

Mrs. Castle

Is it not the fact that in her reply to me the right hon. Lady quoted two cases where, exceptionally, a guardian's allowance could be paid when one parent is still alive? If the hon. Lady is taking the technical point that no formal application has been made, if I can get Mrs. Duxbury to apply, will she give humane consideration to making an exceptional grant in this case also?

Miss Hornsby-Smith

I have already said that we have every sympathy with this case. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Hon. Members will be aware that we have to keep the rule as well as everyone else. The law provides for certain exceptions which I outlined to the hon. Lady; where a child is adopted or illegitimate, where the marriage of the parents has been terminated by divorce or where one parent is missing at the date of the death of the other and the person claiming the allowance is not aware of the whereabouts of the surviving parent and has failed, after all reasonable efforts have been made, to discover them. As the law stands, although I have every sympathy, and so has my right hon. Friend, we cannot count these children as orphans.