HC Deb 08 February 1961 vol 634 cc377-9
9. Mr. Parkin

asked the Minister of Defence what records are kept by Service Departments of a Service man's race or mixture of races.

Mr. Watkinson

Such information is recorded as is necessary to ensure that coloured members of the Forces are not sent to areas where they may be denied equal treatment with their white comrades.

Mr. Parkin

In view of that rather startling reply, which shows that the Service Departments have now adopted a policy which the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance have refused to undertake, would the right hon. Gentleman care to enlighten the House a little more about the methods of recording the selections? Is there a colour chart distinguishing between "medium oak" and "dark oak"? Are there some ancestral notes? Are relatives to come into it? Does the nature of a kink in the hair come into it? What bogus racial doctrine is followed in compiling these statistics?

Mr. Watkinson

The hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that the reason for this is the very sensible one that it is the duty of a commanding officer to look after the men under his command and to ensure that they are not subjected to unpleasantness when serving in the Forces of the Crown.

Mr. Thorpe

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied about the accuracy of these racial records? Is there, for example, a right of appeal by a person who is, in his view, classified incorrectly? Would it not perhaps be advisable for the right hon. Gentleman to have consultations with the High Commissioner for South Africa, who has far greater experience in these things and no doubt would assist?

Mr. G. Brown

Is the Minister aware that this is a most serious reply? It seems to conflict completely with the Prime Minister's reply yesterday. Will the Minister give us a list of the places to which our coloured fellow citizens are not sent, and will he review it with the Prime Minister to see whether the Government want to adhere to this policy?

Mr. Watkinson

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said yesterday that we would look at this whole question, but the point I am on is a perfectly proper one for the Minister of Defence or Service Ministers whose first duty—as the right hon. Gentleman knows there is no colour bar at all in Her Majesty's Forces and no discrimination between race, colour or creed—is to see that these men, when they are on duty, are properly looked after and not subjected to any improper treatment or put in an embarrassing situation.

Mr. Brown

The Minister has not answered the second part of my supplementary question. Will he give the House a list of the places to which coloured members of the Services are not sent?

Mr. Watkinson

If the right hon. Gentleman wants to pursue that, perhaps he will put down a Question. It would be very difficult to give an exact list because this is purely a matter for the discretion of the Service, or sometimes of the commanding officer, to try to see that the men are not put in an embarrassing position