HC Deb 21 December 1961 vol 651 cc1551-3
28. Mr. Millan

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will publish the representations made to him at the end of July, 1961, by the University Grants Committee about university salaries; and what decision he has reached in this matter.

20. Mr. J. Hynd

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what proposals were submitted to him in July last by the University Grants Committee concerning salaries of university teachers; and what reply was given to these submissions.

The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Henry Brooke)

The position in respect of this salary claim was explained by my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary in his reply to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Ness Edwards) on 27th November, to which I would only add that all relevant matters are being taken into account in considering it. It is not the practice to publish the advice which the Government receives from the University Grants Committee.

Mr. Millan

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is very considerable dissatisfaction among university teachers about this claim? Even if the Government think that this is the kind of claim which ought to be subject to the pay pause, could not they at least publish their proposals, even if the operative date is a month or two ahead, so that university teachers can see what is going to happen? There is very considerable annoyance at the fact that they are being kept completely in the dark about this.

Mr. Brooke

I do not take exception to anything that the hon. Gentleman has said. I know that there is genuine concern about this matter, and I hope that it will be possible for the Government to make an announcement reasonably soon.

Mr. Callaghan

As it is generally known, although the advice of the University Grants Committee is not published, that it invited the Association to put in a major wage claim for the rectification of its scales, would the Chief Secretary consider receiving a deputation from the Association so that it could put its case to him, in view of the justifiable grievance that it feels?

Mr. Brooke

No, Sir; we must not do anything to derogate from the position of the University Grants Committee. It is established, and always has been accepted by the House, that it is the University Grants Committee that advises the Government, and I am sure that that is right. I assure the House that I regard this as an important matter and I am extremely anxious to get the position known before the time when the universities will need to recruit for next October.

Mr. Millan

Is not the whole procedure about these salary negotiations extremely unsatisfactory in so far as the Association of University Teachers never knows what the University Grants Committee recommends to the Chancellor of the Exchequer? Why cannot this sort of thing be made clear in some parallel way to what happens with school teachers? Why should they be kept completely in the dark about what is happening?

Mr. Brooke

I do not think universities are exactly of the same status as the schools. The whole system of the Government receiving confidential advice through the University Grants Committee has been accepted by this House for many years and is looked on in the world outside as a remarkably fine method of preserving both the responsibility of the Government and the independence of the universities.

Mr. Callaghan

If the Chief Secretary is not able to receive a deputation from the Association of University Teachers, will he be willing to receive a deputation of Members of this House from both parties to discuss both the machinery and the nature of the claim? This is the responsibility of the House in the last resort, and, as the university teachers have no negotiating machinery, would it not be proper for Members of this House to take an interest and try to see the Chief Secretary about it?

Mr. Brooke

I am always ready to see Members of the House about any matter, but I do want to press on, and I hope that the hon. Member is not suggesting that there should be any delay in the Government making an announcement.