HC Deb 18 December 1961 vol 651 cc933-5
34. Mr. Brockway

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will request the High Commissioner for the Protectorates to approach the Government of the Republic of South Africa for facilities for a representative of the High Commissioner to interview Mr. Ganyile and two other refugees alleged to have been kidnapped by South African police from Basutoland on 26th August.

46. Mr. Thorpe

asked the Lord Privy Seal what further representations have been made to the Government of the Republic of South Africa regarding the alleged kidnapping of Anderson Ganyile and others by South African police from the British Protected Territory of Basutoland on 26th August.

The Joint Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Peter Thomas)

Since the Ambassador addressed his first inquiry to the South African Government on 11th October asking for information that would assist in establishing the facts concerning this alleged incident, he has made repeated requests for a reply, including two requests in the past week. The South African Government have not yet been able to provide a reply on the ground that certain aspects of the case are sub judice.

Mr. Brockway

Yes, but is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the Eastern Cape Division of the Supreme Court gave a decision last week and that therefore the matter is not now sub judice? Ought we not to insist that in a case which has gone on for four months, of men who are alleged to have been kidnapped from British territory, the South African Government could at least give our representative an opportunity to see them?

Mr. Thomas

I agree with the hon. Member. An appeal was laid and the Court order reversing the judgment was made on 15th December. We hope that the South African Government may now be able to reply.

Mr. Thorpe

But since we now know that these men are alive and which prison they are in, is there any reason why a representative of Her Majesty's Government should not be allowed to visit and interview these men? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the only matter that is sub judice is that the Republican Government must show cause by 18th January why these men should not now be released? Is this any reason for precluding Her Majesty's representative from visiting these men?

Mr. Thomas

I think that Her Majesty's Government should await a reply from the South African Government.

Mr. H. Wilson

Since this sub judice excuse has been used to drag this business on for over four months, and since there has been a certain amount of quibbling about whether these men were or were not British protected persons and this kidnapping was done on soil for which the House has responsibility, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he will not take the matter a little more seriously than he has done so far? Will he see that a complete investigation is made within the Protectorate concerned to collect, before it gets completely cold, all the evidence on this most wicked episode? Would the hon. Gentleman, having done all that, not feel in a much stronger position to talk to the South African Government in the way we think they ought to be talked to?

Mr. Thomas

Investigation on Basutoland territory is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary. We are anxious to find what information we can on whether or not this territory was violated. The matter was sub judice until last Friday, since when an order has been made reversing the decision, and we hope to have a reply from the South African Government.

Mr. Wilson

But what was sub judice was the application for the release of these men under South African law. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that what was not sub judice was the simple question of fact whether British territory was violated by the South African raiders who undertook the operation? Surely, there is nothing sub judice about that and the Joint Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs or the Secretary of State for the Colonies, or some Member of the Government, could have been getting on with the job

Mr. Thomas

We have been asking for information for some time. Our concern was to find out whether or not this territory was violated. We hope now that we shall have a reply.