HC Deb 13 December 1961 vol 651 cc446-9
41. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Secretary of State for War what representations he has received from the Officers' Pension Society asking that all retired pay and widows' pensions should be reviewed immediately, and also biennially, with a view to awarding compensation for rises in the cost of living; and what action he intends to take on those proposals.

Mr. Profumo

The chairman of the Society has recently written to the Adjutant General raising a number of points about retired pay and pensions. His letter is being studied and will be answered when it has been given due consideration. However, I think that it is only fair to make one general point. Successive Governments have taken the view that it would be wrong to treat existing Armed Forces' pensioners differently from the general body of public service pensioners. I cannot hold out any hope that a different view will be taken now.

Mr. Shinwell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are considerable disparities between the pensions now available to retired officers after a certain date and after a certain age and the pensions for those retired officers who had to retire compulsorily before a certain date? Is he also aware of the considerable hardship caused by these disparities and will he in his reconsideration of the representations made to him take all these factors into account?

Mr. Profumo

I will certainly take all factors into account when a reply is sent to this very voluminous document. It would be wrong for me to make any pronouncement before I thoroughly examine it, but on the facts we have at the moment I do not think that we can change the policy.

Sir G. Nicholson

Is my right hon. Friend quite sure that he is justified in making this comparison with other public service pensions? Is he not taking advantage of the fact that these are among the most loyal and long suffering of the civilian members of the population? Is he aware that at any rate they seem to think that they are being exploited?

Mr. Profumo

I think that we are taking the right attitude. My admiration for these people is not in any way diminishing, but the Grigg Report took this view and this has been the view taken by successive Governments. I can do no more than say that I will look at the representations on the basis of which this Question has been put on the Order Paper.

Mr. Paget

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that whilst he continues paying pensions in bad money, which is what this amounts to, to the people who receive these pensions, these people act as anti-recruiting officers and do so in the very families from which we draw our best recruits? Is he aware that it is no use offering most attractive pensions now when we provide this example that the pension will not be worth much when the person receives it?

Mr. Profumo

Although that may be relevant, it goes wider than the Question on the Order Paper.

Dame Irene Ward

Will my right hon. Friend forget for a moment about successive Governments, in view of the fact that the present Prime Minister promised that everybody should share in the country's prosperity? Is my right hon. Friend aware that this is a pledge on the part of this Government and has nothing to do with successive Governments? When shall we have an implementation of this pledge? When we have it, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that he can leave it to the House of Commons to see that other people get their fair share?

Hon. Members

Answer.

Dame Irene Ward

May I have an answer?

Mr. Profumo

I am sorry. I did not mean to leave my hon. Friend without a reply. I was considering her long question. I cannot go further than the Answer I have given to the Question on the Order Paper, but I will bear in mind the points that have been made when I come to consider this document.

Mr. Tapsell

Will my right hon. Friend look again at the possibility of putting all retired officers on current rates of retirement pay? Can he explain why an officer who retired in 1946, for instance, should be on a lower pension than an officer of the same rank who retires today after similar service?

Mr. Profumo

I do not think I should answer any of these questions in isolation. I will bear them in mind when I look at this document.