§ 25. Mr. K. Robinsonasked the Minister of Health if, in view of official figures showing a drop of more than 70 per cent. in the take-up of orange juice and cod liver oil at the new prices, he will reconsider his policy regarding subsidy on vitamin supplements and now introduce regulations to amend the Welfare Foods (Amendment) Orders, 1961.
§ 27. Mr. Swinglerasked the Minister of Health if he will investigate the causes of the 77 per cent. drop in the distribution of cod liver oil and the 71 per cent. drop in the distribution of orange juice in Newcastle-under-Lyme between the summer of 1960 and the summer of 1961; and if he will take steps to increase the distribution of these welfare foods.
§ 28. Dr. Strossasked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the marked reduction in the uptake of cod liver oil and orange juice since new charges were imposed, he will revert to the former charges.
30. Mrs. Slaterasked the Minister of Health what steps he proposes to take to safeguard the health of young children in Stoke-on-Trent, in view of the decrease in the distribution of orange juice and cod liver oil.
§ Mr. PowellNo, Sir. Welfare foods remain a cheap source of vitamins along with the many other sources now available. They can be supplied free if necessary. Their availability has been further publicised.
§ Mr. RobinsonBut is the Minister really saying that he is not concerned at the size of this fall? Does he not really think now that there are mothers and children who are not getting the vitamin supplements they need? What did his hon. Friend mean in the debate on 19th April when she said that if there was a substantial fall the matter would have to be reconsidered by the Government? Why has that pledge not been implemented?
§ Mr. PowellThe problem is one of individual and particular families. That is not best dealt with by a general subsidy but by the work of the health visitors who can get at actual families where there is a deficiency of intake. Generally speaking, there is no reason to believe that there is a deficiency of intake of these vitamins.
§ Mr. SwinglerWould the Minister be more candid? Is it his view that there was extravagance in the consumption of cod liver oil and orange juice in 1960, or that there has been a grave drop which is a serious loss to the health of the children in 1961—a drop of 70 per cent.? In these days of market research, 19 what steps have the right hon. Gentleman's Department taken to discover the real reasons for such a startling fall in such a short period of time?
§ Mr. PowellThe reason for this Measure was given in debates earlier this year, and was that there was no longer any reason for an overall subsidy to every recipient of these foods. They are available free where there is need.
§ Mr. SpeakerMrs. Slater.
§ Dame Irene WardOn a point of order. Would you be so kind, Mr. Speaker, to look at Question No. 4 and No. 22, which bear no relation to each other?
§ Mr. SpeakerWe really cannot probe the misfortunes of the hon. Lady in the middle of Question Time. From my recollection her Question was answered with the other Question, and I took great care to see if the hon. Lady desired to ask a supplementary question, but she had no physical appearance of doing so. Mrs. Slater.
§ Dame Irene WardOn a point of order. Question No. 4 relates to Cardiff and Question No. 22 to the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board and its report. Might I ask the Minister to explain—
§ Mr. SpeakerNo, the hon. Lady may not do so. If she experiences difficulty about it, I will explain to her in private, but the Chair has no opportunity of dictating to the Minister what answer he should give or which Questions he should group together.
§ Dame Irene WardThe right hon. Gentleman is a dictator and not a democratic Minister.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder.
§ Dame Irene WardI do not like dictators. I like democratic Ministers— [Interruption.]—I am not feeling that way at all.
§ Dame Irene WardWhy should Newcastle be done out of a reply? It is absolute nonsense.
§ Mr. SpeakerI think that it was in 1693 that this House first resolved that hon. Members who were not speaking should keep quiet.
§ Dame Irene WardI was not born in 1693.
Mrs. SlaterMay I bring the House back to a serious matter? Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that local authority social workers are deeply concerned about this 70 per cent. drop in the intake of welfare foods? These are the people who visit the homes and who know that the people who need them most are those who are failing to get them? Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that in 1961—nearly 1962—it is about time that his Government and his party stopped this cheeseparing in relation to the children of working-class people and realised that the health of the children matters most?
§ Mr. PowellI am sure that in 1961 the vast majority of parents and families are able and willing to pay for this supplement for their families. The problem concerns a very small minority and a general subsidy is not justified.
§ 29. Mr. Harold Daviesasked the Minister of Health if he will give figures showing the distribution and purchase of welfare foods, cod liver oil and orange juice in the towns of Leek, Kidsgrove, Cheadle and Biddulph in the years 1958, 1959, 1960, and 1961.
§ 35. Sir B. Jannerasked the Minister of Health what quantities of cod liver oil and orange juice, respectively, were distributed in Leicester in the years 1958, 1959, 1960 and 1961 and what quantities were distributed in Leicestershire in the same years.
§ Mr. DaviesCan the hon. Lady say whether or not the figures show that there has been a considerable reduction in the consumption of these foods, and does she herself not consider it scandalous that this measure was steamrollered through the House by a huge majority when at the same time massive rebates were being given to Surtax payers and investment allowances were being extended? Is not this disgusting and a reflection of the attitude of the Government towards people in the industrial areas?
§ Miss PittThe figures show a reduction. The other points that the hon. Gentleman makes were all made in the debate that we had on this subject last April.
§ Sir B. JannerIs the hon. Lady aware that I have been listening very carefully to the replies which have been given to various Questions asked on this subject and that I find it entirely impossible to understand those replies? Does she really think that if there is no hard
| Area | Date | Cod liver oil (bottles) | Orange juice (bottles) | Vitamin A and D tablets (packets) | National Dried Milk (tins) |
| Kidsgrove | 1958 | 1,118 | 4,764 | 737 | 3,600 |
| 1959 | 633 | 5,066 | 780 | 3,870 | |
| 1960 | 742 | 5,264 | 753 | 2,765 | |
| 1961 | 590 | 2,700 | 538 | 1,730 | |
| (to quarter ended 30th September) | |||||
| Leek Health Area (which includes Leek, Cheadle and Biddulph). | 1958 | 5,072 | 36,653 | 3,707 | 33,977 |
| 1959 | 5,002 | 36,070 | 3,840 | 33,674 | |
| 1960 | 5,084 | 33,005 | 3,918 | 30,172 | |
| 1961 | 2,958 | 19,260 | 3,071 | 20,336 | |
| (to quarter ended 30th September) | |||||
| Leicester C.B. | 1958 | 17,664 | 134,624 | — | — |
| 1959 | 18,062 | 140,855 | — | — | |
| 1960 | 16,821 | 128,657 | — | — | |
| 1961 | 10,033 | 65,315 | — | — | |
| (to quarter ended 30th September) | |||||
| Leicestershire C. C. | 1958 | 26,467 | 198,048 | — | — |
| 1959 | 25,520 | 213,240 | — | — | |
| 1960 | 25,241 | 205,613 | — | — | |
| 1961 | 15,130 | 112,083 | — | — | |
| (to quarter ended 30th September) |