HC Deb 21 April 1961 vol 638 cc1644-52

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Finlay.]

4.4 p.m.

Mr. James Dance (Bromsgrove)

I am grateful for the opportunity to inform my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport of the grave anxiety which has been, and still is, in the minds of many of my constituents about the dangerous situation which will arise when the new motorway is completed and before the proposed by-pass at Rubery is in use.

I must explain that Rubery is an extremely busy area, consisting of a long road with all types of buildings on either side, shops, schools, and so on. What my constituents are worried about is traffic coming off the new motorway. I think that my right hon. Friend will agree that that traffic will be travelling very much faster than it would normally be travelling. It is generally accepted—and this has been my experience—that when motoring on these excellent new roads, one does not appreciate the speed at which one is travelling.

The primary desire of my constituents was that the subway which, in any case, was to have been built in connection with this new road scheme, should be built in advance of the by-pass itself, so that at least one safe crossing would be provided for pedestrians across this new busy road. I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend that he was able to accede to this request and I know that my constituents will join with me in thanking him for taking that decision.

However, there is still disquiet in the minds of many of my constituents, who feel that something more should be done to solve the speed problem on the main road before the by-pass comes into use. While the subway is of great value, it does not completely solve the problem. A temporary set of pedestrian-operated traffic lights installed midway between the Plough Hotel and the Birmingham City boundary, near St. Chad's School, would provide another safe crossing point. The provision of these lights would not be a difficult matter, since, on temporary roads, this form of temporary traffic lighting is often adopted. I hope my right hon. Friend will give serious consideration to this matter.

The fears of many of my constituents are not unfounded. The headmaster of a school in the area has reported that six children have been involved in accidents on this road, and it is felt that the traffic problem is so great that strong preventive action is essential to stop further loss of life, otherwise children and old people are most likely to suffer.

The anxiety in the minds of my constituents is not only in connection with a proposed new motorway, but with the existing road. I know the district well and I realise the great danger that exists along this road, particularly when cars are overtaking. When a vehicle, on the nearside, stops to allow a pedestrian to cross, a fast-moving car on the offside will frequently overtake, and, of course, the prospect of what will happen when the new motorway is opened is even more alarming.

Can my right hon. Friend do something to slow down the traffic on this road and thus make the job of the local police easier? My constituents desire some physical method of slowing down traffic, as some motorists seem to take little notice of the 30 m.p.h. limit and signs exhorting them to drive carefully.

I remember that in France before the war—and the French are essentially practical people—they had a simple method of slowing down traffic by what were known as caniveaux—a depression in the road, with a sign about 200 metres before it, giving warning of its presence. It was highly effective. A vehicle going over the obstacle at more than 25 m.p.h. needed new springs. I am not suggesting that my right hon. Friend should employ that measure, but perhaps he could place rubber bollards down the centre of the road that is worrying my constituents. That would prevent the highly dangerous process of overtaking.

In addition, large police notices might be of assistance, although I realise that that is not my right hon. Friend's job. In Oxfordshire, they have quite an effective method of using large signs proclaiming, "Plain clothes police patrolling". This has the psychological effect of making motorists more careful. I urge my right hon. Friend to do all he can to stop speeding and overtaking on this highly dangerous stretch of road. I have asked him if he would consider installing temporary pedestrian-operated traffic lights. Surely it is not asking too much to give that a trial. I wish to repeat how very grateful we are that the subway is to be proceeded with at the same time as the motorway. Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that it will be completed by the time the motorway is in use?

In conclusion, can my right hon. Friend give me an assurance that in connection with all these new developments, both for the motorway and for the by-pass, my constituents who own or have interest in the land about to be acquired will be given really fair and adequate compensation for the loss of the amenities which they will necessarily have to suffer?

4.11 p.m.

The Minister of Transport (Mr. Ernest Marples)

I will answer, first, what my hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Mr. Dance) said in the last few sentences. As Minister, I can give only the compensation for which the House has provided by legislation. Subject to that proviso, I assure my hon. Friend that the proper compensation will be paid to his constituents.

My hon. Friend has brought forward some of the difficulties which his constituents will have when a new by-pass is constructed at Rubery and he has rightly emphasised the pedestrians' difficulties at Rubery. When the by-pass is completed he will find that the needs of the pedestrians have been most carefully considered in the plans. There will be two pedestrian subways and two over-passes with footways. It will be neither necessary nor possible for pedestrians to negotiate the trunk road itself. We have segregated the pedestrians from the motor cars. I have always been of the opinion that three-quarters of a ton of steel moving at 30 m.p.h. and eight, nine, ten or eleven stones of flesh moving at 3 m.p.h. will not mix successfully. When the by-pass is completed, my hon. Friend and his constituents will be well satisfied with the arrangements.

My hon. Friend rightly asks what will happen in the interim. He made a number of suggestions. The first was that pedestrian-operated light signals should be installed at the Plough Inn and opposite St. Chad's School—a very odd mixture of an inn and a school. He said that this would be a temporary measure. If I thought that that would do the trick, I would put them there, but I do not think that it will do the trick.

Light signals are not the panacea which they are often thought to be. The need for them arises where difficulties are experienced because of the intersection of two substantial streams of traffic. All the experience which we have had at our Ministry over the whole of the United Kingdom shows that they operate successfully and command a high standard of obedience only at those junctions where there is both a heavy flow of main road traffic and an appreciable amount of side-road traffic. If we introduce what we call a "Cross Now" phase in the light system for pedestrians, it causes considerable delay to vehicular traffic, and it is a successful safety measure only when there is so much traffic that pedestrians have to wait for the "Cross Now" signal and also when the number of pedestrians is sufficient to ensure a fairly continual stream of people crossing the road during this phase.

Mr. Dance

I appreciate that, but there is a very high volume of traffic on this road. I know the road well. I fully appreciate the point which my right hon. Friend has made, but I hope that he realises that there is a heavy stream of traffic, particularly in the rush hour, when the Austin Works are closing.

Mr. Marples

I realise that, but with a subway already constructed during this period it would be folly to try to impose upon motor vehicles travelling along that road some restriction which the motorists themselves were unable to identify with safety. If the lights turn red against the traffic and there are no pedestrians crossing or no cars travelling across the lights, it tends to bring the law into disrepute, because it means that we have imposed an obligation upon the motorist to stop for some reason which passes his comprehension. That is one of the main difficulties about putting lights where they are not justified to the ordinary common sense of the motorists.

If there is a flow of pedestrians at a crossing—for instance, at Trafalgar Square—which is sufficient to ensure a fairly continual stream of people across the road during the pedestrian phase, motorists stop and are willing to stop. If there is only a small stream of people and not a great flow of traffic, pedestrians press the button and before the signal says "Cross Now" they shoot across the road because there are no motor cars. When motorists come, they get impatient and everybody disregards the signs.

The proliferation of signs is of no use unless accepted by motorists and pedestrians. Therefore, it is very dangerous indeed if drivers are halted unnecessarily at a crossing, because if they are required to wait while no pedestrians cross their path they become impatient and move off in anticipation of the green signal. That is extremely dangerous to any pedestrians who arrive when it says "Cross Now" and it is their turn to cross. If there are few pedestrians, the signal is nearly always green and there is a great danger that drivers who regularly use the road—most of the traffic using this road uses it regularly—will become accustomed to seeing it like this. They tend either to be less prepared for a change in the signals or to form the habit of accelerating to pass the signals quickly in case they should change. Therefore, in these circumstances the signals can be a great danger to pedestrians

One thing has happened recently. We have had a meeting in Rubery since my hon. Friend put the Adjournment debate down, but he could not know of the outcome of the meeting. We agreed to the construction of a pedestrian subway which will segregate pedestrians from the flow of traffic during the interim period. That is a great advance. It should make the people of Rubery feel absolutely safe. I believe it is the duty of a Ministry to go to a town where restrictions are being imposed and, if necessary, have public meetings and try to satisfy the audience as to the plans we have in mind. The great thing in a democracy is to try to get as many people as possible to agree to plans. Our Divisional Road Engineer spoke to a public meeting on 17th April of this year, which is not long ago. I understand he satisfied his audience as to the Ministry's plans. There were 250–300 people present. I think that we have done our best.

My hon. Friend suggested two other measures which we might introduce during the interim period. I understand that he is satisfied that for the permanent solution we have been reasonable and have provided the people of Rubery with the proper effective crossings which will safeguard them from the onrush of traffic.

Mr. Dance

Indeed

Mr. Marples

We are now only concerned with the interim period before all the underpasses and bridges are built. My hon. Friend suggested traffic lights, which I cannot accept. I am bound to say that I accept the necessity of building the underpass, which can be used during the temporary period so that the people of Rubery can avoid the traffic.

He suggested two other measures. The first was that there should be no overtaking through the village and that "no overtaking" signs should be erected. These signs can be erected only to give effect to Orders made under Section 26 of the Road Traffic Act, 1960. Less than a dozen Orders have been made for the country as a whole, because it is our policy to limit this restriction to sites where over short stretches the road is so narrow or visibility is so restricted as to make it essential that under no circumstances should overtaking be attempted. We feel that it would be wrong to use this restriction at other places, because this would expose drivers at all times to the risk of penalty for overtaking when it would often be perfectly safe for them to overtake. In this case it would be very difficult to enforce a no-waiting order, because the road runs through the shopping area where vehicles frequently stand to load or unload goods.

It has also been suggested—I think that it was suggested at this public meeting—that we should have a large illuminated sign at the entrance to the village. At first view, this might possibly serve a useful purpose, but the drivers who habitually use this road would very soon be accustomed to seeing it and the eye-catching effect of the sign would soon be lost. For this reason such a sign would be of little practical help and serve no useful purpose in this case.

I understand the anxiety of my hon. Friend who has pursued with great assiduity his efforts to make sure that his constituents are not subjected to excessive motor car traffic and motor car accidents. In view of the political sagacity of the division, I am not surprised that he is looking after his constituents most carefully. He has been continually in correspondence with my Ministry in pressing his view, and I can assure him that I and my Ministry have taken great notice of what he said. It is due to his persistence and judgment that to a large extent this passage underneath the road is being constructed in the interim period, and I think that he will find, as I am sure his constituents will find, that it will be effective from the point of view of saving lives. Pedestrians will now be kept segregated from the motor traffic, which I am quite sure is better than imposing on the motor traffic rules and regulations which common sense will tell them they ought not to obey.

I should like to say that when the by-pass is built it will be far safer for pedestrians in Rubery than it is now. The trunk road traffic will be on the new dual carriageway, physically separated from the village, and it will be very much better than having it in the main shopping street as at present. Pedestrians will cross by two pedestrian subways and the footpath on two over-bridges.

I realise that public anxiety is mainly about the next year or two during the interim period between the completion of the M.5 and the completion of the Rubery by-pass. The M.5 motorway will be open to traffic at least a year before the by-pass is built and the inhabitants of Rubery feel that conditions for pedestrians will become even more difficult. I think that these fears are exaggerated, first because we are building the pedestrian subway in advance of the rest of the by-pass scheme. This is crucial. This is the subway near Gannon Row which should be in operation before the M.5 is open to traffic. It provides a safe way for pedestrians to cross from the residential area to the main shopping street.

My Ministry is to issue instructions to the divisional road engineer to consult the chief constable of Worcestershire about more effective enforcement of the speed limit in Rubery. This, I think, will go some distance towards alleviating my hon. Friend's anxiety.

We had our meeting, with 250 to 300 people there. The public asked a great number of questions, and I hope that it was right when my divisional road engineer reported to me that the meeting was quite satisfied about the steps which he announced would be taken to meet the fears of the pedestrians of Rubery.

I hope that, with that explanation, my hon. Friend will agree that we have gone as far as we reasonably could to ensure the safety of pedestrians in Rubery when the scheme is completed, and we have certainly gone some way to meet practically all their fears for the safety of pedestrians during the interim, before the final scheme is completed. We shall provide a crossing which will segregate pedestrians, and that is, I think, a vital factor. I hope that the accident rate in Rubery will be lower when that crossing is constructed than it is now. If, during the course of the work, my hon. Friend has any cause for anxiety, he will not hesitate, I hope, to get hold of me so that we may see what remedial measures can be taken. Knowing how tenacious he is, I have no doubt that he will get in touch with me if anything goes wrong. I do not myself think that it will, and I believe that the final arrangements we have made will be satisfactory to both my hon. Friend and his constituents. I hope that he will rest content with the explanation I have given.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-five minutes past Four o'clock.