§ As amended (in the Standing Committee), considered.
§ 2.33 p.m.
§ Sir Barnett Janner (Leicester, North-West)I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I do not propose to detain the House on the Third Reading of this Bill, which we had an opportunity to discuss during the Second Reading debate. It is interesting to note that a large number of people, including lawyers, do not understand that if a shopkeeper exhibits an article in a shop window and puts a price upon it there is no compulsion upon him to sell the article to a customer. That may sound strange to a layman, but it is an opinion which has been expressed to me by many people. They cannot understand why, if an article is exhibited in a shop window, it should not be possible for a customer to say, "I want that article and no other". It is not the law that such an article has to be sold, but from time to time when legislation is introduced that is overlooked.
This is what happened with reference to the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act which I introduced and which was supported by a number of hon. Members. On one occasion a policeman entered a shop where he saw a flick knife exposed for sale. There was a price on the knife. The policeman took out a summons against the person who had exhibited the instrument for committing an offence under this Act. The House may remember that the Act prohibits the sale of such articles. It was pleaded that the action of the shopkeeper did not constitute an offer for sale, and that was the view taken by the court. A higher court also held that it was not an offer for sale, and the majority of people in this country who believed that every contingency had been provided for under the terms of the Act were left wondering what on earth had happened.
It is interesting to note that in another place—I do not know whether it was due to the difficulty which arose over this Bill—when their Lordships were 1618 introducing a Bill relating to weights and measures, it was discovered that there was a similar flaw in that Measure. It had been overlooked that an offer for sale did not arise if there was an exposure for sale, and so about seven Amendments had to be made to that Bill to put the matter right. A month or so ago there was another case in the courts brought under the obscene publications legislation. Some filthy photographs had been exposed for sale, but when action was taken the shopkeeper pleaded that it was not an offer for sale, but only an exposure. The courts held that he was not guilty of an offence. The purpose of this Bill is to put the matter right. It is universally agreed that although such a situation may occur only once in perhaps a thousand cases, it is necessary to clear up this misunderstanding and close the loophole in the present law.
The Joint Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, the hon. and learned Member for Huntingdonshire (Mr. Renton), pointed out another important matter, and I am obliged to him and to the Home Department for the assistance I have received in that connection. There arose another difficulty in consequence of the fact that these knives can be imported into Northern Ireland and from there they were finding their way into this country. A similar difficulty has been experienced in the United States. In New York State there is legislation similar to this Act. They have the difficulty that an Act which prevails in one State does not operate in another State. Consequently, similar instruments are imported surreptitiously into the State of New York. In Northern Ireland people are importing flick knives and getting them into this country by that procedure illegally. It is with the intention of removing that difficulty that I have inserted in this Bill a provision to prevent importation of these weapons to Northern Ireland.
Universally, this Measure has been accepted as important. It seems that from the various youth clubs this form of instrument has, with very few exceptions, disappeared. The Measure has had the effect of preventing the youth of the country using weapons of this description for the purpose of boasting 1619 that they are "great men" and so on. I think this is a very necessary provision which will be accepted, not only by the House, but by the country generally.
§ 2.42 p.m.
§ Mr. Eric Fletcher (Islington, East)I beg to second the Motion.
This Bill is an illustration of the pitfalls which lie in the path of the legislator. Only two years ago my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, Northwest (Sir B. Janner) was receiving congratulations from all parts of the House on having introduced and carried into law a Bill which we all thought would put an end to the menace of selling flick knives and other dangerous weapons. Within a short time he and all of us found to our disappointment that textually the Measure was inadequate to carry out its objects.
The Act has not only had a valuable effect in itself, but it has also drawn attention to one of the curiosities of the English legal system. I had expected that if someone put an article in his shop with a price tag on it that was an offer to anyone to buy it at that price. It might be better if that were the law, but the opinion now is that if someone puts an article in a shop with a price tag on it he is not offering to sell it but merely inviting people to make an offer to buy it at that price.
1620 Purely for that technical reason, my hon. Friend has been driven to introduce a Bill to amend his earlier Measure and to tighten it up. Whereas previously his Measure made it an offence to manufacture, sell, hire, or offer for sale or hire a flick knife, it was not an offence to put a flick knife in a window and expose it for sale to anyone who wanted to buy it. This Bill will cure that defect. It will go further, because it will catch the shopkeeper who does not put a flick knife in his window exposing it for sale but merely has it in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire without necessarily putting it on view.
I am sure this short Bill will commend itself to all sections of the House. We hope it will complete the object which my hon. Friend had in mind a couple of years ago in trying to put an end to the dangerous practice of young people acquiring and using flick knives and other dangerous weapons.
§ 2.45 p.m.
§ The Joint Under-Secretary of State to the Home Department (Mr. David Renton)May I ackowledge the way in which the hon. Member for Leicester, North-West (Sir B. Janner) met the suggestions I made to him and congratulate him on the progress he has made with this Bill?
§ Question put and agreed to.
§ Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.