HC Deb 17 April 1961 vol 638 cc788-90
46. Mrs. Hart

asked the hon. Member for Holland with Boston, as Chairman of the Kitchen Committee, how many of the catering staff have suffered a reduction in wages as a result of changes in staff arrangements about which they were not consulted; and how many are leaving as a consequence of the new arrangements.

45. Mrs. Slater

asked the hon. Member for Holland with Boston, as Chairman of the Kitchen Committee, why the recent changes of staff were made without adequate consultation with the persons concerned.

Sir Herbert Butcher

The recent rearrangement of staff duties which were minor in character affected only eight people. They were made for the purpose of endeavouring to improve the service given to Members and were made in the same way to similar rearrangements of duties which have been carried out on earlier, occasions. One worker will sustain a reduction of 5s. 6d. per week, whilst another will receive an increase of a similar amount. I regret that one worker decided to seek other employment before giving the new arrangements a fair trial.

Mrs. Hart

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I am told that four members of the staff intend to leave as a result of these new arrangements, that no consultation with them took place, and that among those who feel aggrieved at their new working conditions are members of the staff who have worked in this building for as long as 15 years? Is it not very unsatisfactory that such drastic changes should take place without adequate consultation with the staff?

Sir H. Butcher

I cannot regard the changes involving eight people, which amounted really to no more than cross-posting, as being in any way drastic. As the hon. Lady is in touch with certain members of the staff, I hope that she will suggest that a proper approach is to the management through the staff representatives and that, above all, members of the staff affected will endeavour to give the new arrangements a fair trial.

Mr. Lee

Will the hon. Gentleman answer my hon. Friend's question? Was there any consultation?

Sir H. Butcher

It is extremely difficult to know where consultation begins and the duties of management end. I think that the proper steps were taken in this case by the manager, who is experienced, and what was done here exactly followed what was done on earlier occasions.

Mr. Blyton

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that if the staff were in a trade union and organised, the Kitchen Committee would not get away with half of what it is doing in the staffing of its services?

Sir H. Butcher

The Kitchen Committee is in precisely the same relation with its staff as other departments in this House. I think that I speak for all members of the Committee, which is entirely non-party, when I say that it has three duties: first, to provide a service to Members; secondly, to provide good working conditions for its staff; and, thirdly, to do it without imposing an undue burden on the taxpayer.

Miss Herbison

Surely the hon. Gentleman realises that this House ought to set an example to the rest of the country on good industrial relations. Is he not aware that some of the women who have been affected give the most devoted service to Members in this House and that it was only because they were pushed too far that they consulted hon. Members? I ask the hon. Gentleman to examine this matter again and to see what steps he or his Committee can take to rectify the harm which has already been done.

Sir H. Butcher

I am sorry, but I cannot agree with the hon. Lady in any way. Some of the changes were made deliberately with a view to assisting those who found the long and extended hours difficult for them. The manager and I, and indeed all of us, are most eager to provide good working conditions for the staff, but I am bound to add that it is not particularly easy to run a department efficiently if at the moment anything is changed Questions arise in the House of Commons.

Mrs. Hart

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the essential point is, not whether the members of the staff have an opportunity to put their grievances to the manager, but that they should have a right to be consulted before drastic changes are made? Will he not ensure in future that consultation takes place before such drastic rearrangement?

Sir H. Butcher

I cannot accept that these changes are of a drastic character in any way. I do not regard the fact that people who are serving teas upstairs are invited to serve teas downstairs as a drastic change. Nor do I regard it as a matter which should be the subject of lengthy consultation.

Mrs. Hart

I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.