HC Deb 26 October 1960 vol 627 cc2539-48

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Chichester-Clark.]

12.9 a.m.

Mr. Leslie Spriggs (St. Helens)

Many months ago I started corresponding with the Ministry of Health on a case reported to me by a constituent of mine, Mr. D. G. Jones. The complaint originated because of a circular sent out by the Ministry of Health to all invalid chair repairers on its list. My constituent took strong exception to that part of the letter in which he thought that the Ministry was being dictatorial.

I have looked at the letter sent to Mr. Jones, from the Ministry of Health, Black-pool, very carefully and I have investigated the case throughout the county borough to see whether the complaint could be settled between my constituent, the Minister and myself. I have made many attempts to satisfy my constituent and I have had various answers from the Minister. While I want to compliment the Minister on his replies, for I think that everything which I have sent to him has been dealt with, I must say that it has not been dealt with to the satisfaction of my constituent. The more I read the first letter, dated 18th November, 1958, the more I feel convinced that my constituent has good reason to complain.

My constituent wrote direct to the Ministry at Blackpool, and failed to get satisfaction and then came to me. I took up the matter. Over 20 letters passed backwards and forwards between my constituent and the Ministry. The manufacturers stated that they mild not supply on a "one-off" basis, and the Minister passed this statement an to my constituent and then told him, "It will, therefore, be necessary for you to hold minimum stocks of Siba Dynastart spare parts."

This businessman whose case I am raising tonight is only a very small businessman, and he could not afford to carry these spares. I am told on good authority that he would have had on his shelves, awaiting Ministry sanction at any time, whether he could use it or not, stock to the value of a minimum of £50. He could not afford that, and he said so. He refused to accept this letter from the Ministry and called it a diktat. I support him. It is dictation to the individual beyond all reason.

I have looked at what has been happening in St. Helens since Mr. D. G. Jones was crossed off the official list of repairers because of his refusal to accept this dictation. The situation for people using Ministry chairs has deteriorated to such an extent that when I made an investigation, only last Saturday, I went to see how long these people had to wait for repairs, and whether there was any difficulty in obtaining loan chairs, I found the loan chair in a deplorable state—in fact, unfit for them to ride in. A few days earlier I found that a badly crippled man had been issued with a motor-propelled invalid chair which was in a dangerous condition. For it to be on the road would not only be a danger to my constituent, but also put other road users in danger. There was a faulty clutch. Another gentleman told me, "I could make a complaint, but I am afraid that if I complain to you my chair will be taken for repair and not brought back."

A gentleman in the Clockface district of St. Helens lost one week's work because he was without a chair. During the remainder of the time that he was without a chair which he could use he asked his employer to allow him to take the holiday to which he was entitled so that he could draw his wages. It is not unusual to have to wait for several weeks for a chair. I have found that the difficulties which my constituents have met should never have arisen.

I am sorry that the Ministry officials have acted as they have. When the work was taken from my constituent, and when he found that he could not accept the decision of the Ministry compelling him, just a small businessman, to carry such valuable spares, he was practically put out of business. If it had not been for personal and family friends coming to his aid, he would have been a bankrupt. because 90 per cent. of his work was for the Ministry of Health. He gave it up rather than accept the dictates of the Minister and his officials.

Most right hon. and hon. Members, I think, will appreciate the spirit in which my constituent acted. I feel that it was wrong to interfere with the liberty of the individual, and hon. Members could do worse than come to the aid of very small businessmen who are fighting to earn their own living and to build up a business. If I had time, I could give several examples of what has been happening. As late as last week, the Ministry of Health was sending to my constituent Mr. Jones its circulars and booklets of instructions on how to deal with certain minor breakdowns to the chairs to which we are referring tonight.

I cannot help but refer to a letter dated 5th December, 1958 and a later letter of June, 1959 in which the Ministry told my constituent that there were complaints of the condition in which loan chairs were found on issue to people and there were far too many breakages.

I consider that a great mistake has been made by someone. It is costing the nation a great deal of money. I do not believe that the Siba Dynastart is the right machine to attach to these invalid chairs; one must stop the chair entirely before it can be put into reverse. Some people are charged with breaking them. One man who told me that one of the visiting technicians from the Ministry had charged him with being clumsy with his machine, could not use his legs at all. The only time he became mobile was when he was sitting in the seat of his chair.

Something could be done by the Ministry through an inquiry into the way the inspectors and technicians are dealing with various garage proprietors who are on the official list of repairers. Also, something could be done about making a new agreement about the price list, which seems to cause a lot of friction. Ways and means, which are wrong, are being used to overcome the shortages, by adding fictitiously to the mileage, for instance, in order to be paid for something other than, shall we say, repairs. This has been going on with the knowledge and encouragement of the Ministry's officials. I believe that to be so because I have made many inquiries into the matter put before me.

There are many other points which I am prepared to put before the Minister if the Minister is prepared to deal with this case and see what really is wrong with the service. I appeal to the hon. Lady to look at the time-lag in her Department. We cannot always blame the mechanical engineer for holding up a job because, as I have found in several cases, weeks sometimes pass before the Ministry gives sanction for repairs to be done. I have no more time now, and I give way so that the hon. Lady may have her opportunity to reply.

12.20 a.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Miss Edith Pitt)

First, may I say that I am grateful to the hon. Member for St. Helens (Mr. Spriggs) for raising this matter, which concerns our repair organisation for tricycles, because it is of great importance to the disabled that their vehicles should be kept in running order. Without adequate repair facilities the tricycles could not be kept on the road and the disabled whom we are all anxious to help would be put to a great deal of inconvenience. We therefore provide a system for maintenance and repair of tricycles which is available throughout the country at no cost to the users.

There are over 13,000 tricycles issued by the Ministry in use in England and Wales. We fully accept that they must be maintained in good condition. We claim that we provide a very good repair service and I can assure the House that we get relatively few complaints. That is a tribute both to the quality of the machines and to the people who service and repair them, and I would like our approved repairers to know we do appreciate the work which they do on behalf of the disabled.

Special repair facilities are available through our approved repairers. Each approved repairer is responsible for the upkeep of the machines in his area, including hand-propelled tricycles and transit chairs in addition to motor and electric tricycles. In the notes which we issue for approved repairers, the approved repairer is given detailed instructions on how he is to proceed and is informed that, in the interests of the disabled, urgent action must be taken at all stages of the work.

There are about 100 approved repairers and all have been selected after a six months' probation period during which they were required to overhaul at least two machines to the satisfaction of our technical staff. I mention these matters to show that we expect a very high standard of service and workmanship from these people. In addition to doing repairs, the approved repairers are required to house and maintain an agreed number of spare tricycles, as the hon. Gentleman has mentioned.

These spares must be ready for immediate issue to patients, for example when their own machines are being repaired, and it is the duty of the repairers to keep them under cover and to ensure that they do not deteriorate while in their possession.

I should perhaps explain here that patients can have emergency and minor repairs done in any garage, but major repair work is done by the approved repairers. They know the machines and know how to obtain spare parts. All their work can be adequately supervised for the benefit primarily of the disabled users and the public purse, which meets the cost.

There are in England and Wales 24 Ministry of Health appliance centres at each of which a technical staff is located whose function it is among other things to supervise the repair and upkeep of tricycles and to see that the patients' machines are kept in good condition. Our technical staffs are fully trained and they make regular visits to approved repairers. In the case of major repairs they are responsible for checking the machines before they are given back to the patients.

Now I come to the complaint by Jones's garage, about which we have heard from the hon. Member. It is a long-standing complaint and has been the subject of considerable correspondence between the hon. Member, my predecessor and myself. It was also considered by the former Minister and has been the subject of Parliamentary Questions in the House. I hope that this further opportunity which the hon. Member has chosen of ventilating the matter may make it quite clear.

The trouble arose in this way. In 1957, it was decided that for easier starting the engines of our tricycles should be fitted with a new and revolutionary starting device. It was arranged for repairers to obtain spare parts for those devices from the manufacturers, Siba Electric Company, Ltd., but there are many small components involved and towards the end of 1958 the manufacturers said that they could not continue economically to supply these components individually. They gave a list of minimum quantities which could be supplied on any one order. That seemed to us to be a reasonable request and preferable to holding stocks in the Ministry's own store with the inevitable delay in transporting them.

Accordingly, we asked our approved repairers to hold a small stock costing about £16—not £50, as the hon. Member has indicated tonight. Mr. Jones refused to hold any stock or, as an alternative, to obtain supplies as required from a local stockist in Liverpool. He said that he was not prepared to accept our dictates and that we were bolstering the faltering economies of Messrs. Siba and, also, that he would not tolerate any interference in the internal management of his business. In other words, to use the hon. Member's own words, he took strong exception.

After some correspondence, Mr. Jones said in a letter dated 12th December, 1958, that he would continue to order from the manufacturer and that if Siba Electric Co. refuse to supply, I will then place the onus on to the Ministry of Health to obtain the part. I should add that he was the only repairer in the whole of the service to protest about this request which we put forward to stock a small supply of parts.

In view of that unto-operative attitude on the part of Mr. Jones and the delays in repairing the machines that might ensue, we had to tell him that unless he was able to make more satisfactory arrangements than those proposed for the supply of Siba spares, we regretted that we should be unable to let him handle any machines fitted with these units. Mr. Jones was urged by the Ministry to reconsider his decision, but he said that in these circumstances it would be uneconomic for him to continue to provide any services for the Ministry and that he would insert a notice in the Press saying that he was compelled to withdraw all services to disabled people.

The intention to remove Mr. Jones from the list of approved repairers was confirmed in our letter of 16th February, 1959. Contributing to this decision was the continued lack of care of the spare motor tricycles kept by Mr. Jones. He had been previously warned on more than one occasion that he was giving insufficient attention and inadequate care to these vehicles, which he was required and paid to keep in serviceable condition at his garage. Mr. Jones, while not accepting these criticisms, replied to say that he was taking the necessary steps to notify motor tricycle users that his services had been withdrawn.

We then had to consider what alternative arrangements to make. After Jones's garage had been removed from the list of approved repairers, a firm in Warrington was added to the list. This firm, in conjunction with the existing two in Liverpool, handle all machines in the St. Helens area. I understand that repair arrangements in St. Helens are satisfactory and we have had no complaints. Minor repairs, of course, can still be carried out at St. Helens.

The hon. Member said that he has a number of complaints. If that is so, I should be grateful if he would give me a note of them, because I would certainly be prepared to look into them. I assure him, however, that we have no official record of complaints in St. Helens about the continuation of this service.

Mr. Spriggs

There are several points on which the Minister should be made aware that are contributory factors to this trouble with the inspectors in question. If the Minister will look at these points, details of which I am prepared to give him, I think we can overcome this difficulty.

Miss Pitt

Most certainly, my right hon. Friend and myself would be prepared to look into any complaint. The hon. Member will appreciate that we must have the information if we are to conduct the investigation. In fairness to our own people in the St. Helens area, I repeat that so far we have no complaints from that area. I am assured that the service is running satisfactorily.

Although we claim that repair arrangements are generally satisfactory, we are always ready to improve them where we can. For instance, at the beginning of this year, there were 59 vehicles in the Liverpool-St. Helens-Warrington area available on loan while a vehicle was under repair. Eighteen of these were fully weather proof. Now there are 64 available on loan of which 43 are fully protected. We intend to improve on this number.

I can fully understand the hon. Member's wish to see that no injustice is done to his constituent. Perhaps I may just add that Mr. Jones was offered an appointment through the former Minister to meet his Controller of Supplies to discuss the matter, but Mr. Jones refused to do so. The only reason for the action taken by the Ministry in this case was the desire to see satisfactory and efficient arrangements for repairs in the St. Helens area. I am sure that the hon. Member is as concerned as I am to ensure that such arrangements exist in his constituency as elsewhere. I conclude by telling him that this particular case has had very full consideration over a long period. I have myself more than once read through the very extensive file we have accumulated on it. I think that the request to stock spares was reasonable, and failing co-operation by the repairer, I think that the decision to close the business as far as we were concerned was a fair one.

What we have to remember—again, I think, I shall carry the hon. Member with me—is, most important of all, that we should give a good service to the disabled people who rely on these vehicles in order to be made mobile. That is our anxiety. That is all that lies behind the intention to make the change in this case, to continue good and prompt service, and I believe that we are doing that.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-eight minutes to One o'clock.