HC Deb 25 October 1960 vol 627 cc2159-62
Mr. Eric Fletcher (Islington, East)

Mr. Speaker, may I raise a point of order and ask your guidance? During the Recess I attempted to give notice of Motion to enable me, under Standing Order No. 12, usually known as the Ten Minutes Rule, to move a Motion for leave to introduce a Bill. It would not be right for me to explain the details of the Bill, but my complaint is that the notice of Motion does not appear on the Order Paper.

The Bill was one to amend the Rent Act. I took the precaution of sending copies to every hon. Member of the House; the Bill is supported by a very large number of Members on this side of the House, and I have had communications expressing considerable sympathy—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I should like to hear the hon. Member on his point of order but not too much about the virtues of the Bill.

Mr. Fletcher

The point of order is this, Mr. Speaker. Under Standing Order No. 12 it is now provided, by a proviso to the Standing Order, which was introduced for the first time in February of this year, that seven days' notice of any such Motion should be given. I gave more than seven days' notice. I gave notice to you, Sir, and to the Clerk of the House about four weeks ago. I understand that the only reason why my notice of Motion enabling me to move this Motion does not appear on the Order Paper is to be found in a reference in Erskine May.

Erskine May does not, as one would have thought, make it necessary that this notice of Motion should be given while the House is sitting. Pages 375 and 376 of Erskine May deal with the manner in which notices of Motion can be given. Erskine May says that a notice of Motion can be given orally. It says that in recent years it has been customary to give notice of Motion in writing and to deliver its terms in writing at any time during the sitting of the House to the clerks at the table who see that it is duly printed. There is nothing in that passage in Erskine May which says that a Member may not, during a Recess, give notice of Motion to introduce a Bill under the Ten Minutes Rule.

At best, the passage in Erskine May is ambiguous. But even if it were not ambiguous, the position has been greatly changed by the addition of this proviso to Standing Order No. 12. I think that this proviso which was added to the Standing Order in February of this year, enables a Motion of intention to introduce a Bill under the Ten Minutes Rule to be given at any time.

It does not seem to me that when the House added the proviso the House could have intended to exclude the rights of hon. Members to give seven days' notice during a Recess, particularly during a long adjournment such as we have just experienced. If that were to be the case, it would remove from hon. Members their right of proposing legislation on matters which arise during an adjournment, such as this matter which, as Questions have shown today, is of considerable importance to a large number of tenants, not only in London but throughout the country.

Therefore, Sir, I would ask you to rule, in the new circumstances that have arisen by reason of the proviso to Standing Order No. 12, that Members wishing to give notice can do so both during an adjournment and while the House is sitting.

Mr. Speaker

Thanks to the courtesy of the hon. Member, I have had a chance to consider this matter. It is a longstanding rule of this House that notices of Motion must be given and can only be given when the House is sitting. I could not change that without some direction or authority from the House. I could not do it on my own.

As regards the proviso added to Standing Order No. 12, I do not find it possible to take the view that there is anything in the terms of that proviso which, even by implication, suggests that the rule has by authority of the House been altered. That is the only Ruling that I can make on the point which the hon. Gentleman has so courteously submitted to me. Of course, if the House likes to change its rule, that is a different matter.

Mr. Michael Stewart (Fulham)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I wonder whether you could tell us what is the basis for what you call the long-standing rule that notice cannot be given during a Recess. I ask the question because the passage in Erskine May quoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, East (Mr. Fletcher) simply says that it has been customary recently for notice to be given during a sitting day. Surely the implication is that it would, at any rate, be possible to give notice during a Recess. Can my hon. Friend's rights be abridged merely by something that has grown up as a custom in comparatively recent years?

Mr. Speaker

With respect, it is not comparatively recent. The point is that notice was given orally, and it is difficult to give oral notice to this House when it is not sitting. That is the basis of the rule that has grown up and that is why the rule exists. I may be wrong, but it is subject to research. Anyhow, I am satisfied that the rule exists and that it is sufficiently established to make it improper for me to try to alter it without the order of the House.

Mr. Robert Mellish (Bermondsey)

Further to that point of order. Do we understand that in accordance with that Ruling, Sir, my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, East (Mr. Fletcher) can now give notice of his Bill, that it would be in order for him now to give notice orally of his intention, and that tomorrow it would have its First Reading? Then, perhaps, if we could get this Motion on the Order Paper relating to Thursday's business altered, we might be able to get the Second Reading of my hon. Friend's Bill on Thursday.

Mr. Speaker

With respect, this is a little confused. By Standing Order No. 12 one is requested to give seven days' notice. I only know from the newspapers what is likely to happen on Thursday, but it is difficult to understand how the hon. Member can give seven days' notice under Standing Order No. 12 of intention to bring in a Bill on Thursday. As for giving notice of introducing a Bill, that is quite a different matter, but it does not secure quite the same kind of priority, so it does not have the same advantage.

Mr. Fletcher

May I now orally give notice, Sir, of my intention to present the Bill tomorrow under Standing Order No. 35?