POLARIS SUBMARINE BASE

HC Deb 21 November 1960 vol 630 cc763-5

46. Mr. Emrys Hughes

asked the Prime Minister if he will give the precise date on which the agreement between Her Majesty's Government and the United States Government about the Polaris base was signed.

Mr. R. A. Butler

I have been asked to reply.

The final arrangements on questions of principle were settled on 31st of October.

Mr. Hughes

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us why he took ten months to negotiate this agreement? What objections did the Government raise during the ten months, and to what extent were these assurances given by the American Government? Can he explain why it took such a long time, and can he assure us that Her Majesty's Government put up a strong resistance to this before they were overruled by the American Government?

Mr. Butler

I cannot give the latter assurance for which the hon. Member asks, but it was a long continuing process of negotiation, the full details of which were set out clearly by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 15th November, in a Written Answer to a Question by the hon. Member.

Mr. S. Silverman

Could the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether, in fact, there is any document which was signed and what he means by the words "finalised" and "interchange"? Is there any record of the agreement? Is there a document? When was it signed, and can it be seen?

Mr. Butler

Naturally, the documents are confidential, but there was a series of exchanges and, as the Prime Minister indicated, they were written and the whole was finalised, as he said on 15th November, at the end of October. I have now given the actual date, 31st October.

Mr. Shinwell

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain this mystery? Why can the House not be informed about the details of the treaty between the United Kingdom Government and the United States Government, or an agreement or understanding, whatever it may be? Why can we not be informed about it?

Mr. Speaker

Not on this Question, which is confined to the date.

Mr. Shinwell

I will put another question, Mr. Speaker, if I may. Will the right hon. Gentleman say, as the agreement was not finalised until 31st October, as he told the House, why was it that when a verbal agreement was reached—and the Prime Minister told us to that effect—the House was not informed about the verbal understanding?

Mr. Butler

Because the final agreement between the two Governments to reach an understanding over this and to make it public was made, as I have said, at the end of October and finalised on 31st October by a series of exchanges. That being so, it was very shortly after that that my right hon. Friend informed the House about it.

Mr. Rankin

On Thursday last, the Prime Minister mentioned an understanding and also a written understanding. Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether those two understandings were reached on the same day, and can he guarantee that there are no unwritten misunderstandings?

Mr. Butler

I can give an undertaking as to the latter part of the question. As to the former part, I can only refer to the account of the consecutive sequences given by the Prime Minister in answer to the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes).

Mr. Shinwell

On a point of order. Would you be good enough, Mr. Speaker, to explain to me, if not to the House, why you refused to allow me to ask a supplementary question on the agreement when that is precisely what was referred to in the original Question?

Mr. Speaker

My recollection—but I should like to look at the Report—is that I was disallowing the right hon. Gentleman because I thought he went outside the subject matter of the Question, which was as to the date on which the agreement referred to was signed.

Mr. Shinwell

Further to that point of order. With very great respect, surely if a reference is made in the original Question to the date of an agreement, that obviously implies that there was an agreement? Is not an hon. Member entitled to ask a supplementary question about the nature of the agreement?

Mr. Speaker

No, not on a Question related only to the date. My recollection is that the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question was on the particulars of the agreement, why were not the Government giving information about the particulars or the details?

Mr. Silverman

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the original Question asked him on what date the agreement was signed? Will he also bear in mind that his answers so far have not stated specifically whether any document was signed or not? Will he tell us specifically whether the agreements, the understandings or whatever be the true description of them, are embodied in the final document which is available and to which reference can be made, or did the interchange or finalisation take some other form?

Mr. Butler

I think the best answer, as I have said on several occasions, was that given by the Prime Minister on 15th November, when he indicated the consecutive series of exchanges, some technical and some political, which took place over a considerable length of time. They took place, some of them orally and some of them written, and that is quite clear from the Prime Minister's Answer on 15th November. The final exchange which took place between the Governments prior to an agreement on both sides to publication took place at the end of October, namely, in particular, on 31st October.