HC Deb 09 November 1960 vol 629 cc1178-88

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Chichester-Clark.]

10.2 p.m.

Mr. Rupert Speir (Hexham)

I welcome this opportunity of drawing attention to London's taxi-cab service. I think that as I make my remarks it will be made clear that I am critical of the service, but not of the taxi-men who operate it. By and large, they are good public servants. They have an excellent accident record and an even better one in the matter of prosecutions. They operate under extremely difficult conditions and the last thing that I want to do is to make their jobs and their lives more difficult than they now are.

Nevertheless, I do not regard London's taxi-cab service as being in any way adequate to deal with present-day requirements, and unless action is taken fairly soon the service will deteriorate still further. It is extraordinary that although the taxi-using public is a great deal larger than it was in pre-war days—many more tourists visit London and, as a result of the higher standard of living, many more people are now able to make use of taxis—there are 2,000 fewer taxis operating in London than there were pre-war. The number has gone down even in the last ten years. Whereas, in 1950, there were about 6,800 taxis operating in London, the number has now dwindled to 6,000.

I realise that the service is somewhat more balanced than it was before the war and that there are now more taxi drivers per cab than in those days. Nevertheless, the fall in the number of cabs available for hire is one of the main reasons why the service is inadequate. If I ask someone whether he agrees with me that there are not enough taxis, I am at first regarded with horror. I am thought to be mad, but when I explain that I am referring to taxis and not taxes, people readily agree with me. There are not enough taxis, not only in the peak evening rush hours between five and six, but during other hours of the day and night and, of course, there is a great shortage whenever it is raining.

I find from my researches that as long ago as 1953 the Runciman Committee, which was set up to examine the whole operation of taxi-cab services, said, in paragraph 38 of its Report: The evidence submitted to us indicates that under present economic conditions the decline in the number of cabs plying for hire will continue until there ceases to be an effective taxi-cab service in London. The Report continued: This poses the question, whether such a state of affairs would be against the public interest? The Report pointed out that London is a capital city, unique both in size and character; that it is the centre of Government of the United Kingdom and the hub of the British Commonwealth and Empire; that it receives a constant stream of visitors from all over the world, and that most of the visitors are dependent on the London cab service.

The Report concluded: … in our view it is beyond question that London needs a service with the flexibility and convenience which cabs alone can provide, a service capable of meeting the demands upon it (frequently of an emergency character), at all hours of the day and night. I think that hon. Members and others will agree that anyone who examines the problem in London today must come to the same conclusion reached by the Runciman Committee. I cannot agree that London is today getting the service which this great capital city deserves. I feel that the Home Office, Scotland Yard, the cab owners, the drivers, and all concerned should now examine this problem anew.

Many of the carriage and licensing rules and regulations are steeped in antiquity, and I think that every one of the rules and regulations governing the licensing and the control of taxis in London—many of which were drawn up in the days of the horsedrawn carriage—should be re-examined and looked at anew. I find it a suspicious and extraordinary fact that so many of the drivers have to go back to the garages to change over their cabs at the peak hour of between five and six o'clock. That is the hour when they are most required.

It has been suggested that this habit derives from the time when the cabs were horsedrawn and the horses had to be watered at regular hours. I imagine that the trade will deny that this is the cause of this extraordinary hour for changing over the driver of the cabs, but, whatever the origin or the reason may be for this system, I think that it could and should be changed now. At any rate, let the rules be examined to see whether it is essential that drivers going back towards their garages should not pick and choose their fares. Surely if they are going in the direction of a garage and can pick up a fare who wants to go in that direction they ought to be allowed to do so. However, I understand that the present regulations forbid that practice.

I understand, too, that at present, because of the regulations, difficulties are put in the way of drivers accepting fares in advance at a fixed hour. I think that it would greatly ease the situation if advanced bookings of taxis could be arranged. I think that most people would consider it well worth while to be relieved of their anxiety and know that they can get a taxi for certain at a fixed hour. I am sure that they would be prepared to pay a substantial extra surcharge if that practice could be introduced.

The system ought to be examined to encourage, and not to prevent, as I understand it does at present, the possibility of fixed bookings being made in advance. That system ought to be encouraged. In this electronics age, surely something more could be done by setting up a central organisation or agency to enable cab drivers to be at the right place at the right time. The problem could be greatly eased if that could be arranged. A demand very often builds up in one part of London, and if only we could arrange for cab drivers to be directed to that area we would be helping to solve the problem.

I know that it is always considered absurd for a Tory to suggest any form of regimentation, control or direction, but the London taxi service is far too uncoordinated. There is too much "red tape" and not enough sensible co-ordination. In fact, there seems to be a general free-for-all, with the result that the travelling public is all too often forgotten and left stranded.

The Post Office could be of considerable assistance if it were prepared to bestir itself. It could be of some help—and it would be a splendid advertisement for the Post Office—if it could arrange that anyone who wanted a taxi could dial either TAX or CAB and be immediately connected to the nearest cab rank. If that cab rank number happened to be engaged by a previous caller the call could be transferred to a centralised agency or to the nearest available cab rank. It is not asking too much to provide a system of that kind in the second half of the twentieth century. If this is too fanciful a suggestion to put forward, at least the Post Office should arrange for more telephones to be provided at the busier ranks. At present, if a person rings up a rank such as Sloane Square at a busy hour he usually finds that the telephone is engaged.

I hope that I have said enough to show that the Home Office should reexamine the question of the London taxi service. I hope that it will be given a good spring clean. The Home Office has kept a very tight control over the service and it should not try to evade its responsibility.

One last suggestion, which may not be welcomed by the taxi trade—which is not altogether receptive of new ideas—is that novel methods should be employed to enable the travelling public to get from A to B without having to use private transport. The time has come when we should consider introducing smaller cabs, as is done in many foreign countries. At present, the new taxis that are coming on to the streets of London are unnecessarily large, owing to the regulations, and are expensive both to buy and to maintain.

If one looks at the taxis in service on usually find that they are occupied by only one person. Now that we have mini-cars the time has come for us to have mini-cabs or even, as in Hong Kong or Tokyo, motorised rickshaws. Let us have them, and at a still cheaper rate. They would be specially helpful in rush hours. It would require Home Office sanction, and if the taxi trade is not prepared to introduce them London Transport Executive might be asked to do so.

These are just a few ways in which I believe that the London taxi service may be modernised. Above all, we want the wind of change to blow through Scotland Yard's Public Carriage Office and the appropriate section of the Home Office. These were the concluding words of the Working Party on Hackney Carriage Law in its Report in 1951: The investigation carried out by the Working Party indicates that a revision of the hackney carriage law … is overdue, and it is to be hoped that the time and opportunity may be found to introduce new legislation which will accord more with the present-day type of 'hackney carriage' and its use than does the existing law, much of which goes back to the first half of the nineteenth century. That was the concluding observation of the Working Party set up by the Government and those are my concluding words.

10.16 p.m.

Mr. Francis Noel-Baker (Swindon)

I hope the hon. Member for Hexham (Mr. Spier) will allow me to "poach" for a minute or two upon his Adjournment debate time to support and amplify his argument. The hon. Gentleman confined his remarks to London. He has not made a constituency speech. I wish that I could have had the opportunity to say a word about the taxis in Swindon and the trouble that they are having with "pirates", but that would be out of order. However, I hope that I shall have an opportunity to do so on some other occasion.

I agree with the hon. Member that it is a matter of urgent public necessity that that part of the transport system provided by taxis should be increased. I should like to see many more and cheaper taxis. One is beginning to believe that for a resident in London or for people who work in London, it is almost becoming anti-social to own a motor car. The inadequacy of other public transport services makes it difficult to know how to move from point A to point B.

On occasions when I have to catch a train to my constituency in the mornings, and it is raining, I find it difficult to get a cab. I hope that the Home Office will examine this matter again. I suggest that there should be an improvement in the telephone facilities. It was once possible to ring a number, Terminus 8800, and one could get a cab. But that number seems to have gone off the air and it is now difficult to find a telephone number from which one can obtain a reply during the peak hours.

I hope that the Home Office will not overlook the conditions of the cab drivers. I think that I am right in saying that they are among the few surviving public servants with no regular wage, no salary, and no superannuation scheme. They depend entirely on a share of the money on the clock. I am sure that the time will come when their position ought to be looked at again and their conditions of employment regularised. I add my plea to that of the hon. Member for Hexham, and everybody living and working in London will be grateful if we can get a cheaper taxi service.

10.18 p.m.

Mr. R. Gresham Cooke (Twickenham)

I wish to support what my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Mr. Speir) has said about the physical features of the taxicab. For fifty years the vehicle has been practically unchanged. It is almost Victorian and suitable only for carrying a family with a large amount of luggage. When I was recently in Tokyo I saw three types of taxicab, the 80-yen cab, the 70-yen cab, and the 60-yen cab. They were the five-seater, the two-seater, based on the little Renault chassis, and the one-seater, based on the little scooter which was referred to by my hon. Friend.

For a businessman who wishes perhaps to travel about half a mile the one-seater is suitable. In the congested areas of London—and in Tokyo it is just as congested—it would be possible to use many more taxis if they were of a design other than the present Victorian type taxi. I should like my right hon. Friend to look at this problem of the vehicles as well as of the service.

10.19 p.m.

The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr. Dennis Vosper)

As one who, during last Session, frequently arrived at Euston Station about midnight on Sundays, I share the view of my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Mr. Speir) about the difficulty of getting a taxi in London on some occasions. At the same time, I join in the tribute he paid to the service. London taxi drivers are thought by many to be among the finest in the world.

The Home Secretary has a responsibility here, but only in the Metropolitan Police District and the City of London. He exercises that power under the Metropolitan Public Carriage Act, 1869. His power relates to the fixing of fares and the providing of licensing arrangements for the cabs and for the drivers. In fact, as I think my hon. Friend knows, these powers are exercised on his behalf by the Deputy-Commissioner of Police for the Metropolis. The point that I want to make quite clear is that these powers are concerned with the setting of approved standards of safety, skill and knowledge in the interest of the public and are not concerned with any attempt to control the market as between the public and the trade.

Licences to drivers are issued by the police, provided that the applicant is of good character and fit to act as a cab driver and passes the fairly stringent test of knowledge about London streets. It is sometimes said that this test is too severe. I should have thought that a very high knowledge by London taxi drivers in the congested streets of our City today is essential, and that the high success rate of drivers in passing this test obviates the need for lowering the standard.

With regard to the standards of the taxicabs themselves—a point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Mr. Gresham Cooke)—it is true that they must be constructed in accordance with specified conditions of fitness, most of which are designed to secure the safety, comfort and convenience of the passengers. One condition, namely, that the cabs must have a 25 ft. turning circle is concerned essentially with the traffic conditions. Each taxi, as I think hon. Members know, is carefully examined and tested at least once a year and is subject to other inspections during the year. All this, the licensing of the drivers and of the cabs, is done to ensure the highest possible standard of safety and freedom from breakdowns and this attitude must have some bearing on the points put by my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham.

There is, however, no control that my right hon. Friend exercises over the number of cabs or drivers, and any company or individual, if he and his vehicles have the necessary qualifications, can enter the trade. My hon. Friend was possibly a little too gloomy about the number of cabs in the trade. They have, it is true, fluctuated over the last twenty years. They dropped from the figure he mentioned of just under 7,000 in 1950 to 5,443 in 1953, just after the Runciman Committee's Report. But they rose again to 6,247 at the end of October this year, so since 1952–53 there has been an increase, although the figures are not back to the pre-war standard. At the end of October, last month, there were no fewer than 9,877 drivers. It follows that there are always more drivers than taxicabs, as some taxicabs have two drivers owing to the shift system.

Therefore, the trend over the last six or seven years has been in the right direction. Compared with 1953, the number of cabs has increased by 14 per cent. and drivers by 9 per cent.

My hon. Friend is, I think, aware of the approach made to the Home Secretary and to all Members of Parliament earlier this year by the Joint Committee of the London Cab Trade. This called for Government intervention in the form of a scheme for stabilising the trade and limiting the entry. It was the old argument put to the Runciman Committee and decisively rejected by it seven years ago.

In recent weeks, my right hon. Friend has considered once again these arguments as a result of a deputation received at the Home Office, but he is writing to the trade to inform them that he sees no reason to impose any limitation on right of entry into the trade. He does not consider that such action would be in the interests of the public, nor does he accept the argument that the demand for taxicabs has reached its peak or that earnings and conditions of the taxicab proprietors and drivers are in jeopardy.

I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham will welcome this decision, but I think that he wants to go in the other direction on the grounds that even now the supply is inadequate or insufficient to meet the demand. I think that he realises that there is no way in which the Home Secretary can actively promote an increase in the number of taxicabs, and I am sure that he would agree that this should be decided by the law of supply and demand.

Mr. Speir

Not altogether.

Mr. Vosper

I think that probably this will meet his point. He probably argues, or I understand him to argue, that the restrictions at the moment imposed by the Deputy Commissioner are such as to prevent the natural expansion which he thinks would otherwise take place. In this respect, for example, he advocates the introduction of minicabs, which would not be possible under the present regulations.

If I may deal with the last point first, because probably it is the most important and is the most novel, the arguments against a vehicle like a minicab seem to be three in number. First, and most important, it may not be of sufficient strength to stand up to the strain of cab work in London. A taxi averages 40,000 miles a year and one which was tested recently averaged over 60,000 miles. Therefore, it has to be a strong vehicle. Secondly, this experiment has been tried. Two small vehicles were tried in London in 1928, but there was little demand and they were withdrawn. The third argument against is that it would be unlikely that manufacturers would think that the limited market in London would justify the production of a specialised vehicle such as my hon. Friend has in mind.

Those are the arguments against, but I can tell my hon. Friend that the Deputy Commissioner would be willing to consider some relaxation of these conditions of fitness subject to safety standards being maintained so as to allow a smaller model such as he has in mind, although not of the particular pattern he suggested, to be introduced. I think that my hon. Friend will accept that it must be for the manufacturers and the trade to get together if they feel there is sufficient public demand and support for my hon. Friend's suggestion. I do not think that it would be possible for the Deputy-Commissioner himself to initiate this matter, but if an approach is made to him for a smaller taxi he would be willing to consider whether some relaxation could be made.

My hon. Friend raised the question of telephones. This is largely a matter for my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General, and I will bring this debate to his attention. I think he would tell my hon. Friend that he already provides 100 telephones free of all rental for the taxi service and he would be willing to provide further telephones only if the taxi trade itself is willing to pay the normal rental but I shall see that this matter is brought to his attention.

My hon. Friend also proposed the setting up of a central exchange which intending hirers might ring up and which, in turn, would direct a suitable vehicle to a pick-up point. Again, I think, it must be for the trade to bring about a scheme of this kind since it would have to bear the cost of renting the necessary equipment and to provide the staff to man it. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General would be willing to co-operate if the trade were to present suitable proposals that met these requirements.

My hon. Friend suggested than it should be possible to book a cab in advance on payment of a surcharge on the normal fare. I am rather doubtful about this suggestion. I am not entirely satisfied that the point is not already covered in the existing regulations. My experience is that cab drivers are usually anxious to accept this type of booking, but they are content to charge the meter fare from the pick-up point and hope for a rather substantial tip in addition. I cannot help feeling that that might be the correct solution to this problem.

I have much sympathy for my hon. Friend in his remarks about the six o'clock period in the evening when the changeover takes place. I think that there is something in the point he made about the two shifts per cab. I express the hope that his words will come to the notice of the trade, because I think that it is losing good customers in that peak period of demand.

I am not quite so certain that I share his view about the right of a driver to reject or choose a fare on his homeward journey. This would strike at the foundation of the present system which rests on the availability of a cab that is plying for hire to anyone who wishes to hire it for a journey within the prescribed limits of six miles and which does not exceed one hour's driving time. This is a valuable safeguard to the public and I should not like to see it breached even at one point.

Finally, my hon. Friend suggested that the regulations are obscure. As one who has to study these regulations I have some sympathy with him, but I must tell him that the working party which was set up to consider this in 1949 failed to reach agreement on several important questions of policy. Without giving rise to too much hope, I will consider whether anything further can be done.

I have ventured some early reactions to my hon. Friend's suggestions many of which I am sure he realises are for the trade to consider and not the basis for Government intervention. In general, I believe that there is a case for the expansion rather than for limitation of the London taxi service and, as I have said, the Deputy Commissioner is prepared to consider whether there are any relaxations of conditions which can be made to this end consistently with the need to preserve the proper safeguards for the travelling public.

I hope that my hon. Friend's words will not only come to my attention, but to the attention of the trade. He has done a valuable service in airing this matter tonight.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-nine minutes to eleven o'clock.