HC Deb 09 November 1960 vol 629 cc1043-8

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper:

92. Mr. DE FREITAS

To ask the Secretary of State for Air whether he will make a further statement on the recent incident involving a Royal Air Force Comet in which Her Majesty the Queen was a passenger.

The Secretary of State for Air (Mr. Julian Amery)

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I will now answer Question No. 92.

The Anglo-German Committee of Investigation has completed its inquiry into the incident on 25th October involving the Comet of the Royal Air Force Transport Command in which Her Majesty the Queen was flying and two F.86 fighters of the Federal German Air Force.

The Committee visited all the headquarters and operational stations concerned. All personnel concerned in the incident were questioned, the Comet and F.86 aircraft were inspected and the relevant navigational charts and radar plots were checked.

The Committee found that the Comet was flying on its way from Copenhagen to London Airport in accordance with current air traffic procedures. The F.86 aircraft were carrying out a battle formation exercise from Oldenburg. They sighted condensation trails at a distance of 10 to 15 miles and closed on them from approximately an ahead position until they recognised what they subsequently described as a "transport or bomber type aircraft". They then pulled away. The Comet co-pilot could not know that the F.86 pilots had sighted him and acted correctly in reporting an air-miss.

The Committee has been unable to establish the exact distance by which the F.86 aircraft cleared the Comet, but it is satisfied that since weather conditions were clear, and the fighter pilots had the Comet in view the Whole time, there was no danger of a collision.

Even before the Committee of Investigation was convened the Federal German authorities had conveyed to our Embassy in Bonn expressions of regret that the aircraft carrying Her Majesty the Queen should have been involved in such an incident. This statement has been agreed with the Federal German authorities.

Mr. de Freitas

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that his statement gives little indication of what lessons have been learnt for the future? It is good to hear that there was no danger of a collision, but, whatever the degree of danger, will not the right hon. Gentleman use this incident to spur on the negotiations for joint civil and military air traffic control in Europe and a standardised system of air traffic notification? Will he also consult with the Minister of Aviation and study the correspondence begun by the Guild of Air Pilots in September, 1959, with his right hon. Friend, in which it drew attention to . . the increasing danger of collision in the air … and also asked for a standardised system and joint air traffic control?

Mr. Amery

We are satisfied that there was no danger of collision, and we also fully accept that the German pilots did not realise that Her Majesty was in the aircraft, and that there was no intended discourtesy. I think that we can, therefore, set our minds at rest on the two main issues of anxiety.

There remain the questions which the hon. Gentleman has raised as to how we should avoid things like this happening in future. I agree that it is wrong that they should happen. Let me give an example of the lessons that we are trying to learn. The Federal German authorities in this case had been given all the necessary information about the outward and return flight of the Comet, and promulgated this to all airfields, including Oldenberg.

At Oldenberg, details of both flights were brought to the notice of pilots concerned on the day of the outward flight, but they were not subsequently reminded of the return flight on the day of that flight, nor were they given special instructions. It is possible that if, on that day, special instructions had been given, or a reminder issued, the incident would not have taken place.

At the same time, it has been suggested that it might have been better if we had issued separate instructions, one for the outward flight and one for the return flight, rather than a single Notice to Airmen covering both flights. But it has never been the practice to do this in the past and there could be objection to it. This is, however, one of the points we are looking at at the moment.

The hon. Gentleman also raised the question of agreed international procedures. This is a very relevant point. Naturally, we gave the German Federal authorities full details of the flights, including the passenger list, and told them of the precautions which we were taking in our air space. One of the officers also suggested, unofficially, to the German side that they might consider taking similar precautions on their side, but it is true that we did not make a formal request to the Federal German Air Force for special restrictions to be imposed on normal flying in the area through which the Comet was passing. We thought that this matter should be left to its discretion.

I agree that one of the lessons we should draw is that we should take up with our European neighbours some agreed procedure corresponding with what we call "purple airways" in this country. I will also look at the other point which the hon. Gentleman made about the correspondence which has passed previously with the Minister of Aviation.

Mr. Kershaw

What is the reason for the long delay in making this announcement? Has my hon. Friend noticed the mocking and disagreeable comments of the German Press to which this delay has given cause?

Mr. Amery

I do not think that delay has been serious. I thought it right not to wait for the full procedure to be carried out, because even now the recommendations of the Committee are still subject to review at higher levels on the German side and on our side. I thought it important to let the House know the position as soon as we possibly could, but I think it desirable, in a matter of this kind, to make a statement agreed with the Federal German authorities. These matters always take a little more time than one would expect.

Mr. Wade

Whoever the occupants may be, it is important that we should try to avoid the risk in an incident such as this. I understood the right hon. Gentleman to say that the fighter pilots were not reminded of the return flight. In so far as that will require some change in procedure, can he give an assurance that this change will be introduced without delay?

Mr. Amery

The briefing of the fighter pilots is a matter for the Federal German authorities, not for me.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Will my right hon. Friend consider whether, on future occasions when Her Majesty is flying across European routes for comparatively short distances, her aircraft should have a small fighter escort which will show any military aircraft that there is somebody of importance on board and that it is not just a matter of an aircraft on an ordinary flight?

Mr. Amery

I would hope that that would not be necessary.

Mr. Rankin

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that in the initial stages when this business was raised his predecessor promised the House that he would get in touch with the Minister of Aviation, who is also concerned in the matter of a unified air control system not only this country but over Europe? Has that not been done? Also, are we to deduce from what the right hon. Gentleman has told us—it sounded very apologetic—that these German machines, in plain, simple language, buzzed the Comet, an act which has been deplored in this House and should be deplored once again and the Germans told about it? I hope that this will be done.

Mr. Amery

I am not very clear yet about the exact technical significance of "buzzed".

Mr. Rankin

If the right hon. Gentleman were in an aircraft he would know.

Mr. Amery

I think that they broke off short of buzzing range. With regard to the hon. Gentleman's earlier point—I know his interest in this matter—my right hon. Friend the Minister of Aviation and I are co-operating in these studies, but it will take a little time to bring the procedures into practice.

Mr. John Hall

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the radar stations which were responsible for tracking the Comet were in touch throughout, and whether the Comet changed its height plan on the return flight?

Mr. Amery

The Comet was under constant radar surveillance. The German fighters were flying in clear weather conditions. They were not under radar control. There was no need for them, in the circumstances, to be under radar control. The Comet was flying under civil procedures and under the direction of the civil air authorities. There would have been a risk of confusion if we had attempted to impose some form of military radar control as well as civil direction. I have forgotten my hon. Friend's other point; perhaps he will remind me of it.

Mr. John Hall

It was whether the Comet's height plan was changed.

Mr. Amery

An amendment to the original notice to airmen was not passed to the German Air Force. It dealt with a minor change in height of 1,000 feet between 36,000 feet and 35,000 feet and had no bearing at all on the incident.

Mr. S. Silverman

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the pilot of the Comet shared the view that there was no danger of a collision, and will he bear in mind that there will be continual danger of this kind of thing happening, with consequences which are unpredictable, while we continue with the policy of providing West Germany with an Air Force?

Mr. Amery

The co-pilot realised that there was no danger of a collision and that the fighters were taking evasive action. This, I think, explains why he himself did not take any evasive action.