§ 44. Mrs. Castleasked the Prime Minister whether he will take steps to amend the House of Commons (Offices) Act, 1812, to enable one of the Ministers serving as Commissioners to answer questions in the House on the work of the Commission as its Chairman.
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir.
§ Mrs. CastleIs the Prime Minister aware that until the recent debate on accommodation, the Commissioners had not met for seven years, and that during this period the staff of this House were denied the normal rights of trade union negotiation and the right to joint consultations? Does he not think, therefore, that some procedure whereby the Commissioners could be made answerable to this House is urgently necessary in order to prevent these kinds of abuses continuing?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. I would not have thought that our arrangements should he altered unless there is considerably more support than has already been shown. Mr. Speaker Clifton Brown, I remember, used these words:
…it is not in the best interests of the staff that their conditions of service should be dealt with by means of Questions and Answers in this House.—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 1st April, 1943; Vol. 388, c. 349.]I have a feeling that that will still be the view of the majority.
§ Mr. C. PannellEven if Mr. Speaker Clifton Brown's words were wise then, does not the Prime Minister think that it would be wise, equitable and just if in 1960 we were to concede to the staff what is conceded outside—the right of trade union bargaining and recognition, which are not recognised in this Palace?
§ The Prime MinisterThat, I think, is another question. I was asked whether we should deal with this by Question and Answer.
§ Mr. GaitskellWould not the Prime Minister agree that a Commission which consists of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Law Officers and the Secretaries of State is a singularly inappropriate body for dealing with this problem? Does he not realise that there is a very widespread feeling in the House that full trade union recognition should be granted to the staff employed by the House, and that it is the business of the House to take some interest in those engaged in its service?
§ The Prime MinisterOf course, the right hon. Gentleman omitted to observe that Mr. Speaker is the Chairman of the Commissioners.
§ Mr. MonslowWould not the Prime Minister agree to set up a committee from both sides of the House to ascertain from the staff what they feel about the conditions under which they are employed?
§ The Prime MinisterI am in the hands of the House, and if the right hon. Gentleman would like through the usual channels to get in touch with the Leader of the House, I am sure that we should be able to discuss that. We only want to do what is the view of the House. I was calling attention to what I thought were dangers if these matters came forward on particular Questions.
§ Mr. GaitskellMay I say, in reply to the Prime Minister's Answer to a Question which I put earlier, that of course I appreciated that you, Mr. Speaker, are the Chairman of the Commissioners, but it was the desire of the House that the House should be more closely associated with those whom it employs, and I shall be glad to accept the Prime Minister's proposal.