§ 35. Mr. Stonehouseasked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations what reply was given by Her Majesty's Government to the request from the National Democratic Party for a constitutional conference on the future of Southern Rhodesia to be held before any amendment of the Constitution or withdrawal of the reserve powers of the United Kingdom.
§ Mr. AlportWhen my noble Friend the Secretary of State received a deputation from the National Democratic Party on 28th April, he told it that he did not know if any amendment of the Southern Rhodesia Constitution would be made; or if the circumstances in which that might be considered would be such as to make it desirable to call a conference; or, if a conference were called, what its composition might be. The attention of the National Democratic Party has since been drawn to my statement in this House on 9th May.
§ Mr. StonehouseIs the Minister aware that the deputation of the National Democratic Party is much appreciative of the courtesy with which it was received by the Secretary of State? But, in view of the direct relationhip which exists between the United Kingdom and the Africans of Southern Rhodesia who enjoy the protection of the United Kingdom, would it not be far more satisfactory in the consideration of any amendment of the Constitution for all parties 1478 to be consulted rather than that direct negotiations should take place between the United Kingdom and the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia, who represents only a minority of that country's population?
§ Mr. AlportI do not think that the hon. Member would argue Chat it is not right that discussions on this important question should take place first between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Government of Southern Rhodesia. What might be the composition of a conference on the constitutional future of Southern Rhodesia is a matter which I have previously explained would be for decision at a later stage.
§ Mr. MarquandWill the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is to be a constitutional conference in Nyasaland and it is surely entirely reasonable that Her Majesty's Government should draw the attention of the Southern Rhodesia Government to the desirability of a conference in Southern Rhodesia at the present time?
§ Mr. AlportThis is a matter on which I have answered a number of Questions on a previous occasion. I explained to the House on that occasion that, as a result of the last discussions which had taken place between the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia, various ideas were under discussion and thought at the moment, and that until those had been properly analysed and studied it would not be possible to make a decision on the matter.
§ Mr. MarquandThe right hon. Gentleman says that matters are under discussion. Will he not indicate that it is desirable that after those discussions have been completed a constitutional conference should be held?
§ Mr. AlportUntil we are quite certain what matters will come before a constitutional conference it would be premature to make an announcement on that subject.
§ 39. Mr. Stonehouseasked the Minister of State fox Commonwealth Relations how Her Majesty's Government propose to assess the interests and opinions of Africans in Southern Rhodesia in consideration of changes proposed in the Constitution of the Colony.
§ Mr. AlportI would refer the hon. Member to the Answer given by my hon. Friend the Under-Seeretary of State to the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) on 3rd May, and also to my statement of 9th May.
§ Mr. StonehouseIs the Minister aware that the overwhelming mass of Africans in Southern Rhodesia are opposed to any amendment of the Constitution which would remove the protective clauses? Will he bear in mind that the chiefs in Southern Rhodesia are civil servants, and as such are subject to the directions of the Prime Minister of that country and therefore are in no way representative of public opinion?
§ Mr. AlportI am not aware on what evidence the hon. Gentleman bases his statement, but, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said, in the event of any change being made in the Constitution of Southern Rhodesia the interests of Africans would be given full weight, and that undertaking remains.
§ Mr. StonehouseHow?
§ Sir G. NicholsonMy hon. Friend is aware how thorny this subject is. Will he at any rate undertake to sound opinion in this House, either publicly or unofficially, before any final decision is taken?
§ Mr. AlportAs I think has been the practice for many years, the opinion of this House with regard to any great move that may have to take place is invariably ascertained at the appropriate time.
§ Mr. MarquandCannot the Minister be a little more forthcoming? Is he aware that public opinion in this country is generally anxious about this matter, as there are no African representations at all in the Legislature of Southern Rhodesia, and no constitutional change should be made there without rinding some means of ascertaining the opinions of Africans?
§ Mr. AlportAs my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said, the views of the Africans will be given full weight, and therefore it will be necessary to make sure of their views at that time.
§ Mr. GaitskellHow exactly will the opinions of the Africans be obtained?
§ Mr. AlportThat is a matter which will have to be considered at the appropriate time.
§ Mr. GaitskellAre we to understand that the Minister and the Secretary of State have given no consideration to this problem of how to ascertain the opinions of Africans? If they have given consideration to it, cannot we be told what their plans are?
§ Mr. AlportI explained to the right hon. Gentleman on a previous occasion that we were still in the preliminary stages of the discussions and consideration of the subject. When the due time comes for these matters to be raised in concrete form, naturally I shall have great pleasure in telling the right hon. Gentleman and the House what they are.