HC Deb 13 May 1960 vol 623 cc772-5
Mrs. Thatcher

I beg to move, in page 1, line 9, to leave out from the first "by" to "exclude" in line 10 and to insert "resolution".

This is a technical, drafting Amendment, and I shall endeavour to give my reasons for putting it forward. As the Clause was originally drafted, there was a requirement that a resolution under this Clause should be passed by a majority of members present. In Committee, the view was expressed that although that requirement was in the 1908 Act it would be better if this resolution was subject to the ordinary rules as they apply to other resolutions of local authorities. An Amendment to that effect was, therefore, moved in Committee, and was accepted. When I looked further into the matter, I had reason to believe that that Amendment did not, in fact, achieve the desired effect.

The rules about ordinary resolutions of local authorities are contained in paragraph 1 of Part V of the Third Schedule to the Local Government Act, 1933. Sub-paragraph (1) contains a provision substantially the same as the present Amendment, but sub-paragraph (2) provides for a case which we did not consider in Standing Committee. That relates to there being an equal number of votes for and against the resolution. It provides: In the case of an equality of votes the person presiding at the meeting shall have a second or a casting vote. I am advised that if we leave the Bill in its present form we shall preclude the provision relating to a second or casting vote. If we pass the Amendment it will have the effect, which I believe was the desired effect as expressed in Standing Committee, of making this provision apply to the resolutions covered by the Bill.

Amendment agreed to.

Mrs. Thatcher

I beg to move, in page 1, line 18, at the end to insert: (3) A body may under subsection (2) above treat the need to receive or consider recommendations or advice from sources other than members, committees or sub-committees of the body as a special reason why publicity would be prejudicial to the public interest, without regard to the subject or purport of the recommendations or advice; but the making by this subsection of express provision for that case shall not be taken to restrict the generality of subsection (2) above in relation to other cases (including in particular oases where the report of a committee or sub-committee of the body is of a confidential nature). A number of hon. Members expressed the view in Standing Committee that it may be difficult for officials of a local authority to give advice freely and absolutely unfettered in the presence of the public or of the Press. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government advised that the exclusion provision would permit a local authority to receive advice in private, but I have thought fit to introduce an Amendment to cover the point so that there should be no doubt about it in the minds of local authorities.

The Amendments which were put forward in Standing Committee related specifically to advice from officers of the body. We realised at the time that there might be occasions upon which the body would wish to receive advice from independent consultants whose opinion it had requested but who were not actual officers of the body. The Amendment, therefore, is drafted in wider terms to include occasions of that kind when the body wishes to receive advice from independent consultations.

Mr. Michael Stewart (Fulham)

We are indebted to the hon. Lady for having put down this Amendment. It carries a little further and makes clearer the Amendment which some of us were anxious to make in Standing Committee, and it will relieve anxiety which officials of local authorities have felt about this part of the Bill. I trust, therefore, that the Amendment will commend itself to the House.

Amendment agreed to.

Mrs. Thatcher

I beg to move, in page 2, line 25, at the end. to insert: (4) Where a meeting of a body is required by this Act to be open to the public during the proceedings or any part of them, and there is supplied to a member of the public attending the meeting, or in pursuance of paragraph (b) of subsection (3) above there is supplied for the benefit of a newspaper, any such copy of the agenda as is mentioned in that paragraph, with or without further statements or particulars for the purpose of indicating the nature of any item included in the agenda, the publication thereby of any defamatory matter contained in the agenda or in the further statements or particulars shall be privileged, unless the publication is proved to be made with malice. This Amendment arises from an undertaking which I gave in Standing Committee to consider the problems which may arise when documents pursuant to the requirements of the Bill are supplied to members of the public or representatives of the Press. As the Bill was originally drafted, there was no provision to protect documents which it was mandatory upon the body to supply by the inclusion of the defence of qualified privilege. The effect of the Amendment is to give a body and its officers a defence of qualified privilege in an action for libel in relation to the publication of defamatory matter, for two reasons—either because they have supplied those documents for the benefit of a newspaper or—and I have added a second reason—because we have now thought fit to include the public within the purview of the Bill.

11.15 a.m.

It is clear that when the public as of right attend meetings of authorities they may well not understand what is going on unless they are supplied with documents which make clear the subject matter under discussion. The chances are, therefore, that the body will think fit to supply those documents, although it is not imperative that it should do so. I felt that if a body supplies such documents the defence of qualified privilege should be available to that body in so far as it supplies these documents to members of the public attending the meeting.

Amendment agreed to.

Mrs. Thatcher

I beg to move, in page 2, line 32, at the end to insert: and to any organisation which is systematically engaged in collecting news for sound or television broadcasts; but nothing in this section shall require a body to permit the taking of photographs of any proceedings, or the use of any means to enable persons not present to see or hear any procedings (whether at the time or later), or the making of any oral report on any proceedings as they take place. This Amendment is brought forward because I gave an undertaking in Standing Committee that I would consider the position of any B.B.C. or I.T.V. reporters who wished to attend a meeting of a local authority. At the time I expressed the opinion that they would be included as members of the public I think that is correct, but in the Bill as it is at present drafted we have made further arrangements relating to the Press.

The Press is entitled as of right to certain documents. If B.B.C. or I.T.V. reporters attended as members of the public they would not be entitled as of right to those documents, although they might get them. I therefore thought it advisable to equate the position of reporters of the B.B.C. and I.T.V. to that of the Press so that they get the extra facilities which are essential if they are to do their job properly.

I have equally tried to make it clear that these facilities extend only to attending for the purpose of reporting in order that the local authorities may not have any fears whatsoever that they might be liable to have the proceedings actually televised. That, of course, is not envisaged in this Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.