HC Deb 31 March 1960 vol 620 cc1511-6
Mr. Stonehouse (by Private Notice)

asked the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations if Her Majesty's Government will grant political asylum to Mr. Oliver Tambo, Deputy President General of the African National Congress, and Mr. Ronald Segal, Editor of "Africa South", who have escaped into Bechuanaland from the Union of South Africa.

The Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations (Mr. C. J. M. Alport)

The High Commissioner has reported that Mr. Segal and Mr. Tambo have arrived in the Bechuanaland Protectorate. Residence in the Protectorate is governed by the local immigration laws, under which it is open to them to apply for residence permits. Any application will be immediately considered by the authorities.

Mr. Stonehouse

Will the hon. Gentleman answer the question? Will political asylum be granted? Further, will passport facilities be granted so that—

Mr. Speaker

Order. That is a different point. I cannot allow it in the circumstances of a Private Notice Question.

Mr. Stonehouse

May I ask whether the Minister of State will answer the question? Will political asylum be granted to Mr. Tambo and Mr. Segal?

Mr. Alport

I have stated the position as it now exists, and I would remind the hon. Gentleman and others that any further action on this would require the High Commissioner to take into consideration many factors, among the most important of which in making his decision are his responsibilities for the ordered administration of the territories.

Mr. Marquand

Is it not well known that Mr. Tambo is really endeavouring to go to the United Nations to state the case of his people before the Security Council, and that—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am sorry. There are difficulties about this. I will explain if the right hon. Gentleman wishes.

Mr. Gaitskell

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Is the right hon. Gentleman rising to a point of order, or to ask a question?

Mr. Gaitskell

A question, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to ask the Minister of State whether he would give an assurance that these men will not be sent back by force to South Africa.

Mr. Alport

I would remind the right hon. Gentleman that it is most important in dealing with these circumstances that full consideration should be given to all the factors involved. I have mentioned an important one, which, I am sure, is present in the right hon. Gentleman's mind.

Mr. Gaitskell

Yes, Sir, but is the Minister of State really saying that he can conceive of circumstances in which, after what has happened in the Union of South Africa, these two men, British subjects, will be sent back to the Union? If he cannot conceive of such circumstances, why does he not give us the assurance for which we ask?

Mr. Alport

These two individuals are citizens of the Union of South Africa and it is most important, as I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will agree, that we should apply the law which we have in existence in relation to the circumstances as they arise.

Mr. Marquand

Is not the hon. Gentleman bound to have some regard for Che circumstances, as he himself has just said? Has he read the leader in The Times this morning, which points out that African casualties have been out of all proportion to the threats of disorder? Is there not something like persecution of Africans now going on? Should not we save these people from persecution?

Mr. Alport

I do not think that that arises out of the Question which has been put to me. I have already said, in my first supplementary answer, that the High Commissioner will bear in mind the many considerations which relate to particular circumstances like this before making his decision.

Mr. Gaitskell

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that we on this side of the House would regard it as a disgraceful act if these men were sent back by force? Will he undertake to make a further statement on this matter tomorrow?

Mr. Alport

I realise that the House is concerned about this particular problem, but I think that this is a matter which can be left very properly to the High Commissioner in the execution of his responsibilities in accordance with the regulations and proclamations of the Bechuanaland Protectorate.

Mr. Gaitskell

Is not the High Commissioner responsible to Her Majesty's Government? Are the Government trying to shuffle out of their responsibility in this matter? I ask again the question: will the hon. Gentleman, when he has more information on this matter, report to the House tomorrow?

Mr. Alport

I said that I would do so if it is appropriate to do so. I do not think that it is right for the right hon. Gentleman to accuse the Government of shuffling out of their responsibilities. We have a representative in whose discretion and experience we have the fullest confidence, and we are quite certain that, with his information and knowledge of the conditions on the spot, we can be confident that he will act in a way which will be appropriate in the circumstances.

Mr. Gaitskell

Is the Minister of State really saying that, whatever the High Commissioner decides in this matter— [An Hon. Member: "No, he did not say that."] Yes, he did—that whatever the High Commissioner feels in this matter he will decide, or is he saying that the Secretary of State is waiting for advice and information from the High Commissioner and the Government will then make their decision and the House will be informed? If the latter, will the Minister inform the House tomorrow?

Mr. Alport

I have already said that I would inform the House, if it is appropriate and when it is appropriate. I must ask the right hon. Gentleman not to put things into my mouth which I have not said.

Mr. Brockway

Is it not particularly desirable that Mr. Oliver Tambo, the Deputy-President of the African National Congress, should have the opportunity of remaining in Bechuanaland while his application for a visa to attend the United Nations Security Council to give evidence is being considered? Is that not particularly desirable since the Indian delegation at the Security Council has asked that Mr. Tambo should be allowed to go there and give evidence?

Mr. Alport

The matter of giving evidence is one for decision by the United Nations, not for me.

As regards remaining in Bechuanaland, I have already answered that in my initial answer to this Question, when I said that, if a temporary residence permit is asked for, any application will be immediately considered by the proper authorities.

Mr. Grimond

Can the Minister of State confirm that the ultimate decision rests with Her Majesty's Government, and with no one else? The hon. Gentleman spoke about making a further report to the House. Can he confirm that that report will be made before any decision can possibly be taken to send these two men back to South Africa, and that, in fact, they will not be sent back without the House having a very much fuller statement?

Mr. Alport

The decision lies with the High Commissioner, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman, on behalf of my noble Friend, that no decision can be taken without reference at any rate to the courts, which are in all probability the ultimate decider of matters of this sort.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Clearly, we cannot take this matter further now.

Mr. Gaitskell

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious matter involving the honour of our country. [Hon. Members: "Oh."] If hon. Gentlemen opposite do not care about this, my right hon. and hon. Friends and I do. These two citizens of the Commonwealth have escaped from the Union of South Africa, where a wave of persecution is taking place at present. They are in British territory. We are asking that they be not sent back by force. We have asked particularly whether the Government themselves will take the responsibility for that decision. We still have no clear answer on this matter. I must ask the Minister of State whether he will make clear that this is a decision for which Her Majesty's Government take responsibility.

Mr. Alport

Certainly. If I have not yet made that clear, I certainly will make it clear now that there is no question of these men being sent back by force. The question does not arise in these circumstances. [An Hon. Member: "That is what we asked for."] I am sorry if I did not make that clear to the right hon. Gentleman before. I assumed that he realised that a British Administration would act only in accordance with the law existing at any particular time in any particular place.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. There must be some end to this Question time.